Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
No, let me just ask a question.
Do either of these statements make more sense than the other?:
I. It cannot be proved that "X" did occur; therefore it did not occur.
II. It cannot be proved that "X" did not occur; therefore it did occur.
On one hand you just have someone, albeit credentialed, saying it did not occur. On the other hand you have someone saying it did occur. Even though the statement and the arguments on either hand may be present, neither position may be absolutely proven to be correct.
Did Farragut really say "**** the torpedos.....", or did "someone" just say he did?
No, let me just ask a question.
Do either of these statements make more sense than the other?:
I. It cannot be proved that "X" did occur; therefore it did not occur.
II. It cannot be proved that "X" did not occur; therefore it did occur.
On one hand you just have someone, albeit credentialed, saying it did not occur. On the other hand you have someone saying it did occur. Even though the statement and the arguments on either hand may be present, neither position may be absolutely proven to be correct.
Did Farragut really say "**** the torpedos.....", or did "someone" just say he did?
Frankly, you make no sense at all. Tho you do havea great talent at nonsense.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
Respectfully, it does not matter much what Grant may have said at one time or an other, but it does make a difference when folks propagate misinformation.
Sam
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
On one hand you just have someone, albeit credentialed, saying it did not occur. On the other hand you have someone saying it did occur. Even though the statement and the arguments on either hand may be present, neither position may be absolutely proven to be correct.
I'll go with the guy who's spent a lifetime studying Grant as opposed to the one who uses the Oxford English Dictionary as an arbiter.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
SamGrant; I understand where Jkeith is coming from here. While I have seen this quote quite thouroghly debunked JKeith hasn't. If you could provide a link or even cut and paste the reply to your email query that would, I think, go a long way in substantiating the quote.
In my own experiance in CW discusssions I have seen many invented quotes & have even unknowingly passed some on as legit.
All of us have heard the argumen that: It can't be proven therefore it didn't happen w/ the riposte of It can't be proven that it didn't happen therefore it did... I believe that is the point that was being aimed at (hope I'm not assuming here).
For what it's worth I was going to ask for a link as well so we could have it in concrete that it's a known false quote.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Respectfully, it does not matter much what Grant may have said at one time or an other, but it does make a difference when folks propagate misinformation.
Sam
I have already acknowledged my potential faux pas and apologized for it. You choose to press the issue now with an allegation. Therefore, I'll make the request, since it seems to be so important to you, that you prove that "misinformation" was "propogated".
Will an opinion prove it is misinformation? Will an analytical opinion of "writing styles" prove it was misinformation? Will a deep abiding and ingrained belief of one from "the land of Lincoln, and Grant" that it has to be misinformation be proof? If opinion, belief, second-hand accounts, qualify as proof, then any "proof" shown so far that is was misinformation carries about as much weight as the counter-claims.
"But whoever waited for the common people when a great move was to be made-we must make the move and force them to follow." Alfred Aldrich
"There was an undoubted majority of the people who desired to remain in the Union... The election machinery was all in the hands of the secessionists, who manipulated the election to suit their end. John Tenney
"The prevailing ideas entertained by... the leading statesmen at the time of the formation of the old Constitution were that the enslavement of the African was in violation of the laws of nature; that it was wrong in principle, socially, morally and politically. It was an evil they knew not well how to deal with, but the general opinion of the men of that day was that somehow or other in the order of providence, the institution would be evanescent and pass away... Those ideas, however, were fundamentally wrong. Alexander Stephens.
The war is based on the principle and fact of the inequality of mankind- for the policy we say races, in reality, as all history shows it as the truth is classes. James Hammond
"We wanted twenty negroes. Negro property suddenly became very valuable and there was raised a howl of 'rich man's war, poor man's fight.'... from this time to the end of the war... We Cursed the war... we cursed the Southern Confederacy. All our pride and valor was gone." Sam Watkins
While it is a bitter pill to come back into the Union, don't think there is much regret for the loss of the Confederacy. The treatment the solders have received from the government in various ways put them against it. Sgt William Andrews. ANV Feb 1861-April 1865
I think these men (All Southern) knew what they were talking about.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I'll go with the guy who's spent a lifetime studying Grant as opposed to the one who uses the Oxford English Dictionary as an arbiter.
Ole
ole - I probably would too. In fact I will from here on out pending any further development. But, I also recognize that unless this gentleman is aware of everything Grant ever said, he cannot be certain of what Grant didn't say. And therefore it is just his opinion (that Grant did not say the sword thing) that'll I'll be going with. - Joe
All of us have heard the argumen that: It can't be proven therefore it didn't happen w/ the riposte of It can't be proven that it didn't happen therefore it did... I believe that is the point that was being aimed at (hope I'm not assuming here).
Thank you. No, no incorrect assumptions. You're spot on my point that neither argument would really hold any water. But taken further, logically, one could not argue from one position without accepting the other and.... neither are valid. So this whole thing has really gotten kinda pointless.
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