Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I also think anyone foolish enough to say such a thing to a Union or Confederate soldier during or after the war would have been ... well, met with a strong reaction.
Regards,
Tim
Well, since i was talking about negros in the WBTS, with the example of the Coloured Sarge who led the mutiny over being payed less than whites in the 54th, because it made them slave wages, ie the same as manual labour, he was tried and executed.
He said and thought he was being treated as a slave, and died opossing it
It all depends on who youn ask, ask a Mumluk slave soldier if he is a slave and he would agree he was, and lived better than most free men, being the elite of the Army, and setting up their own Empire later on, after turning back the Mongels for the first time in Mongol history.
It will all depend on context, but slave soldiers are very common in history.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
I have no problem with Grant making such a comment, he did not free slaves undr his control untill the 14th come into operation, his overridding perspective was to win the war and remian out of politics during the conflict, the safest way to do that was to follow the Congresional statement isued on what the conflict was over, ie the Union, and not to interfere with slavery.
I find the OED standard of proof entirly persausive, going pear shaped is one that comes to mind, not appearing in print untill WW1, but quite likly used before then.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Unable to reply to post 139 which i can only see the first 2 paras of, if you want any reply then if its not to much trouble could you repost, im sure you had something intrsting in it, i just cant read it becaue of browser problems.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Dear Hanny,
It seems to boil down to "quotes are as valid as the observer's desire for them to be valid."
Or conversely, as invalid as the observer's desire for them to be invalid? as evidenced by....?
Quote:
...Did Grant say this--the answer seems to be: No.
The answer "seems".....?
Personally, it doesn't matter to me one way or the other. If the statement is inaccurate and not something Grant actually said, of course I'm embarrased to have brought to the table. However, based on what I'm seeing discussed here, it appears to be just as likely as not.
There is already enough attributable info available to show that Grant was not willing to (publicly?) hang his hat on the abolitionist's peg until after the outcome had pretty much been decided... So, what difference does it make anyway? ...other than for the sake of argument?
So, what difference does it make anyway? ...other than for the sake of argument?
Bingo!!!!!
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I posed the question to John Y. Simon, editor of the 26 voume Papers of Ulysses S. Grant and chairman of the "Ulysses S. Grant Association". I think we all might agree that he could supply an authoritative answer(?).
His reply:
"The statement attributed to Grant has floated about on the
internet for years, repeated often enough that some have thought it
authentic. It is not."
Sam
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
I posed the question to John Y. Simon, editor of the 26 voume Papers of Ulysses S. Grant and chairman of the "Ulysses S. Grant Association". I think we all might agree that he could supply an authoritative answer(?).
His reply:
"The statement attributed to Grant has floated about on the
internet for years, repeated often enough that some have thought it
authentic. It is not."
Sam
Could you provide the appropriate link or reference for confirmation of validity?
Actually YOUR word was cattle, to which i replied to the imporoper use of, now cite where the slaves were treated as cattle in any work you like.
Just a few titles for you; pick one these are some of the titles that have influenced my opinions on the benevolance of slavery.
Black Resistance Before the Civil War Cheek The Strange Career of Jim Crow Woodward. Booker T Washigton and the Negro Place in American Life Spencer The White Response to Black Emancipation Synnestvedt
Federal Writers Project, Alabama Slave Narratives.
Fogel & Engerman, Time on the Cross the Economics of American Negro Slavery.
Gates Agriculture and the Civil War.
Glatthaar Forged in Battle The Civil War Alliance of Black Soldiers and White Officers
McPherson, Marching Toward Freedom.
Meltzer, In Their Own Words A History of the American Negro 1619-1865
Rose,Rehearsal for Reconstruction The Port Royal Experiment
Trudeau, Like Men of War.
Already provided the case law in UK, thats another part of what you missed, just like knowing why the UK ended slavery in the ULK but not its colonies. Apparently
Becasue the point, another one that escaped you, was conscripted negros were denied the choice to pay and not serve but forced to serve, since the point about being a slave was wrong because lack of choice, the newly forced conscripted slave was denied a choice to be a soildier, payed less than a white as well.
The numbers of US conscripted negroes...fairlty insignificant from what I've found.Were they paid, fed, clothed, armed, trusted w/ govt equip? Who said the following, I may not be recalling the quote exactly. "Give a man a rifle in his hands and an eagle upon his chest and he is no longer a slave." Their pay was later adjusted... incidently it's interesting to see who pushed for the unequal pay. Was it fair? No.
Would you be willing to deliver you or your family into slavery?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Are you suggesting that they were not? Perhaps they were willing and eager to free their slavaes... I must have missed that one. Please enlighten me as to the extent of the CS political movement to Emancipate I would be most appreciative. Perhaps a list of CS politicians who wer NOT slaveowners would be useful.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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