Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Since the Bible otherwise seemed to condone slavery, slave owners would interpret this to mean they should treat their slaves as they would wish to be treated if they were a slave, themselves.
"otherwise"? "seemed"?
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
It would do your cause a bit more good if you could slim down your posts and reduce your length of your replys. Length does not constitute proof and it has a good chance of being ignored or not being read at all.
Unionblue
I hate to diss a fellow CWTer, but I gotta agree with UB on this.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
Having just posted three responses to various posts on this thread, I suppose you can slam me for this one.
Once again, a thread has been convoluted from it's original topic to a myriad of issues.
I wish if a person has an original idea, they would start a new post on it, rather than pervert a thread from it's original purpose.
Perhaps this is impossible, but it could be remedied if one might try to keep to the subject, and if they have some other, even somewhat related, idea, they could start a new thread and tell folks about it.
Sorry, if you think I am being preachy about this, but in this thread, about originally, loosely 'why (or not) slaveholders freed their slaves after the EP, the thread has exploded into so many tangents:
Page 3: issues of slavery in the bible (by the way, no one mentioned the differences in the quality of mercy, etc. between the 'OLD' and the 'NEW" testament.)
Page 4: suggesting the EP originally advocated slave insurrection
Page 5: naval flogging vs. conditions of slaves
Page 6: value of maintaining a slave vs. I'm not sure what
Page 7: Ancient Greek views on slavery
Just hoping we all can keep on topic on these threads, and please open a new one if one has a new topic.
Oh well.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
Please produce a source where Grant ever made the statement he would turn in his sword if he fought for slavery. This has been disproven more than once on this board to be bogus and unproven.
Hanny,
It would do your cause a bit more good if you could slim down your posts and reduce your length of your replys. Length does not constitute proof and it has a good chance of being ignored or not being read at all.
Unionblue
"The sole object of this war is to restore the Union. Should I become convinced it has any other object, or that the Government designs using its soldiers to execute the wishes of the Abolitionists, I pledge you my honor as a man and a soldier I would resign my commission and carry my sword to the other side."
Ulysses S. Grant, quoted by Carey, Jr., Democratic Speaker's Handbook, page 33 printed in 1868
Grant was aware of the quote and acepted he had said it, along with other US Mil men who were asked by the JCCOTW for their opinions during 1862, which led to the Mil pressure for the EP on mil neccissity grounds, and did not disparove of its use.
As to the length of the post, its due to the almost complet lack of education you and others have demonstrated, i would not have to post so much if others displyed even a basic understanding of the subject matter, your posting of the 3 scripture references is a case in point, the proof you wanted is in the post/s content, the legth of the content is to cover all possible ground so as to demonstarte your 3 claims to be ignorant and uneducated.
The cause of education is the cause of all, (im not sure i ever expalined wht my cause was or is btw, so how you know what is is a bit of a puzzle) those who dont like haveing their conclusions, based on ignorance, show up as such often refuse to modify their posistion, and instead compalin about the answers given, had you felt able to refute my post im sure you would have attempted to do so, i find i have answered you 3 scripture references fully and completly, and i suspect you found that to be the case as well.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
its due to the almost complet lack of education you and others have demonstrated
Quote:
those who dont like haveing their conclusions, based on ignorance, show up as such often refuse to modify their posistion, and instead compalin about the answers given, had you felt able to
Hanny, do you label everyone who disagrees with you as uneducated and ignorant? Do you think people are more likely to listen to your message when you label them as such? Maybe you should ponder that for a bit.Your arrogant and patronizing attitude tends to detract and distract from the message you're trying to convey.
Speaking of "educated" and "ignorant", have you ever thought of possibly taking a couple of courses in spelling, or typing?
Speaking for myself, I find that your message is overshadowed by the insulting and condescending overtones contained in your post.
In plain English, if you're trying to persuade me to seriously consider your viewpoints, you have failed.
Terry
__________________ "In this great struggle, this form of Government and every form of human right is endangered if our enemies succeed. There is more involved in this contest than is realized by every one." Abraham Lincoln - August 18, 1864 Speech to the 164th Ohio Regiment
Hanny, do you label everyone who disagrees with you as uneducated and ignorant? Do you think people are more likely to listen to your message when you label them as such? Maybe you should ponder that for a bit.Your arrogant and patronizing attitude tends to detract and distract from the message you're trying to convey.
Speaking of "educated" and "ignorant", have you ever thought of possibly taking a couple of courses in spelling, or typing?
Speaking for myself, I find that your message is overshadowed by the insulting and condescending overtones contained in your post.
In plain English, if you're trying to persuade me to seriously consider your viewpoints, you have failed.
Terry
Your english comprehesion is as bad as my typing, i commeted that the arguments presented were uneducated and ignorant requiring lengthy expalnation, at no time should that be confused with the poster themseves. Anyone feeling themselves hard done by, dont ***** about it, you earnt it with your poor argument, get a better argument rather than get upset that your argument is rubbish.
lets ask you then, since youve not posted so far, where is slavery a sin in the bible?, where is slavery immoral in the bible?.
No doubt you will not answer, because perhaps unlike the other posters you know there are no passages in the Bible which plainly condemn or criticize the institution of slavery.
Odd quote, silience gives asent in law.
My silence should not necessarily be interpreted as acquiescence."
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
1. Be Nice
2. Talk to others as you would be talked to.
3. BE NICE!!!!
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
lets ask you then, since youve not posted so far, where is slavery a sin in the bible?, where is slavery immoral in the bible?. It is an implied sin, my deductive argument from the 10 Commandments at least gives such a charge credence. Again did Christ own a slave? No he did not, nor did he call slavery an evil. Though his parables can be used to do so. Subtlety... shocking that.
No doubt you will not answer, because perhaps unlike the other posters you know there are no passages in the Bible which plainly condemn or criticize the institution of slavery. I have stated that it is hard put to find anti slavery references in the bible. I have also stated that the Devil knows the bible as well or better than most. The three founding documents of this great nation are at odds w/ slavery. Am I incorrect in such a conclusion?
Odd quote, silience gives asent in law.
My silence should not necessarily be interpreted as acquiescence." I noted a lack of response to my soldiers don't=slaves & convicts don't = slaves arguments... why? Did I miss something? I admit that is quite possible as I've been working long hours of late.
As a side note, I stated once that the very idea that Native Americans were just innocent bunny hugging bytanders was based upon ignorance; there were almost immediete demands for my resignation as a mod and demands that I be tossed from the boards because I had the audacity to point out facts and voice an opinion. I promised to stay off the political threads and have done so for the most part since.
Accusing people of being ignorant or uneducated will not get you far on these boards. Neither will trying to prove slavery a moral right.
If I may; 21 year veteran of what? It has been my experiance that those who claim to be a veteran and then call soldiers slaves... well why not get out after the first 4 years or have I missed something?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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