Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
So what they did was "normal" as long as they declared they were acting in a revolutionary manner? How exactly does a people "declare a revolution?"
You dodged this question earlier. How does a State (or minority of States) in a federal system declare that they were exercising the natural right of revolution?
In a federal system, must they overthrow their own State government, if they have no problem with their State government? That hardly seems wise. Must they overthrow the whole federal system, the majority of the citizens of which are happy with how that system is working? That seems neither likely to be successful, nor fair to the majority who would lose the government they are happy with.
Answer these questions directly please.
John, men like Jefferson Davis specifically declared they were using a constitutional right and were not revolting. I am absolutely sure you know that, and pretty sure you can find quotes from secessionist leaders on this board right now saying that. Just where is it you are trying to go with this?
John, men like Jefferson Davis specifically declared they were using a constitutional right and were not revolting. I am absolutely sure you know that, and pretty sure you can find quotes from secessionist leaders on this board right now saying that. Just where is it you are trying to go with this?
Regards,
Tim
Tim, that is all very true. However, I am curious how you see a people can activate the natural right of revolution. How exactly does a people go about declaring a revolution?
Respectfully,
John Taylor
__________________ "In this Constitution, the citizens of the United States appear dispensing a part of their original power in what manner and what proportion they think fit. They never part with the whole; and they retain the right of recalling what they part with." James Wilson of Pennsylvania, October 28th, 1787
This is an interesting debate. I have a question: If the secessions were illegal, why were there not any treason trials after the war?
Will: I can provide one answer for that. Although some wanted trials and hangings of a great many secessionists and Confederate leaders and generals, the overwhelming feeling was to get on with stitching things back together -- to not further widen the gulf by vengeful recriminations.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Will: I can provide one answer for that. Although some wanted trials and hangings of a great many secessionists and Confederate leaders and generals, the overwhelming feeling was to get on with stitching things back together -- to not further widen the gulf by vengeful recriminations.
Ole
but then came reconstruction, a vengeful recrimination of gigantic proportions.
Will:
Reconstruction was not pleasant, but it was also not as bad as some would have you believe. I understand that you are working in a local government environment. How many times have your governing bodies done things right as you perceive them to be right? Reconstruction was much the same a (ethnic reference) fire drill.
A barely contained chaos with opportunists, do-gooders, national government, state government, local government and the hapless struggling for power, sanity, calm, and just get-out-of-the-way and let me get my crops in. There were good people on both sides trying to make a return to normalcy. As you might well suspect, there were some scoundrels on both sides mucking up the works for a host of personal reasons.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
__________________ 'It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag'
My family endured it...to them it had gigantic proportions. And, to me.
No denying, Will, that it was not a good time for anyone involved. Many innocents pay the price exacted by the guilty. It is an unfortunate result of war that if you are in geographic proximity of the loser, you're going to get some of the ordure shovelled in that direction during and after hostilities.
Your family, involved or not, were simply at the mooky end of the stick. S##t happens. Most of a family dies in a plague, all their investments become worthless ... It wasn't their fault -- it couldn't have been, but they were swept into a situation that happened, perhaps without their approval, perhaps with their enthusiastic support. Doesn't matter. They got dealt a really bad hand and they lost the pot. Whose fault is that? Life sucks; then you die.
Should I bear some guilt because my antecedents farmed in Minnesota and suffered increased costs for necessities? No. You play the hand you're dealt. Your family, whatever their circumstances, got a bad hand. Reconstruction had a better hand, and it was played by that sneaky, nasty, nefarious being called .... another human.
Respectfully,
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Interesting discussion.
You all don't mind if I remind Tim that there is a question pending, do you?
So, Tim, what do you think?
Thanks.
Respectfully,
John Taylor
__________________ "In this Constitution, the citizens of the United States appear dispensing a part of their original power in what manner and what proportion they think fit. They never part with the whole; and they retain the right of recalling what they part with." James Wilson of Pennsylvania, October 28th, 1787
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
