Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Anyone who gathers an opinion on a nation or a race or a culture on a very limited experiance of it is at the very least a fool.
True. But, as nobody has done that, the opinion is somewhat redundant.
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That's about as intelligent as watching every episode of Absolutely Fabulous and then claiming to be an well versed on British culture.
Well, it's not a bad introduction.
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Should liberty only apply to those of a certain level of intelligence? Who will determine that level? What other qualifiers will be added to "intelligence?" Race, creed, gender, age, political opinions?
Race, creed and gender make no difference to one's capacity to act responsibly. Intelligence most certainly does. But as there is no reliable and objective means of measurement of intelligence it is a bit of a non-starter. There is, however, no getting away from the fact that one of the deficiencies of democracy is that the professor and the moron both have one vote.
I am aware that criticism of the vast battalions of the stupid is not politically correct. But if any of you had ever been out on a Saturday night in a British city you would perhaps understand my jaundiced point of view.
I've been out on many a Friday & Saturday night in US cities... I rather expect a Brit pub to have the same basic environment as a US bar.
So the Professor should have more votes than the "moron." How many more? Please define a moron; wouldn't be the man or woman working 40+ hours a week at the local petrol station would it? Or is it anyone who the professor doesn't feel is up to his level of intelligent discussion.
Would you deny a "moron" a library card? What if that "moron" is trying to better themself... Who defines the "moron?" The professor who wants more authority & power?
One of the major pluses of democracy is a voice for the little people, the average joe, the man who actually works for a living. The minority has a voise and so does the majority not just a few elitists put there by the grace of money or a quick wit. A Democratic republic... is not a pure democracy.
First deny the rights of the "moron," then the poor, then the ugly, then... well you can see where I'm going.
"True. But, as nobody has done that, the opinion is somewhat redundant." I suppose I misunderstood the premise of some judging the US upon their experiance w/ members of CWT.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
For some reason I'm reminded of the Birkenhead. Every women & child survived because of the courage & discipline of British soldiers, men that much of the Brit upper class viewed as the dregs of society and absolutely would have felt deserved no voice in the govt. And yet those men were of a class keeping the nation strong. Were they the "morons" you speak of?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Do you deliberately misunderstand everything you read?
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But as there is no reliable and objective means of measurement of intelligence it [ie basing the electoral system on it] is a bit of a non-starter.
Which part of this extremely simple observation don't you understand?
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Every women & child survived because of the courage & discipline of British soldiers, men that much of the Brit upper class viewed as the dregs of society and absolutely would have felt deserved no voice in the govt. And yet those men were of a class keeping the nation strong. Were they the "morons" you speak of?
Oh dear. Now you're confusing intellectual elitism with social elitism. They are quite, quite different things. The snobbery of which I am guilty is the snobbery which states that the manual labourer with a high intelligence is an inherently superior being to the baronet who is patronised by his own labrador.
There is, however, no getting away from the fact that one of the deficiencies of democracy is that the professor and the moron both have one vote.
If voting laws followed the example of gun control, then in your version of intelligent society, voting would be preserved to just government employed professors, and denied to all private citizens. Since defining and separating the morons is not practical, universal prohibition is the result. Or can everyone who is not a knuckle dragging moron possess a firearm in England?
"A well educated Citizenry being necessary for the security of a Free State; the Right of the People to Keep and Read books shall not be infringed."
As can clearly be seen, the amendment guarantees a right to only well educated citizens to keep and read books.
No soup for you!
(so I don't get in trouble like last time, the above soup remark is just a quip from another Seinfeld episode)
Cedarstripper
Cedar, You are soooo bad.
The pen is truly mightier than the sword.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
In this supposedly classless society, we do ourselves a disservice by carelessly tossing about words with specific definitions. According to my dictionary, an idiot is someone with the mental age not exceeding three years and requiring custodial care. A moron is someone with a mental age of between 8 and 12 years.
It does not reflect well on a person who equates a lack of intelligence with a "class." That is judgemental and, in fact, ignorant. Elitism at its ugliest.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Oh dear. Now you're confusing intellectual elitism with social elitism. They are quite, quite different things. The snobbery of which I am guilty is the snobbery which states that the manual labourer with a high intelligence is an inherently superior being to the baronet who is patronised by his own labrador.
But that isn't what you said. You refererenced the shortcoming of a "moron" having the same voice as a professor. Intellectual elitism= someone being better because of superior intellect. Social elitism= someone being better because of financial or social status. Regardless, it is elitism. Or more properly I'm better than you areism...
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
In reading the "professor and moron" comments, I am reminded of the joke that there are remarks so stupid only a college professor would make them.
I think democracy probably works best if all types of people are included. Most people aren't stupid, even if you disagree with them. I think the dishonest or fanatical people are more dangerous.
When I see drunk, stupid people, especially during hunting season back home, it does worry me, although all the hunters I know personally are all careful, smart folks. But, gosh, how many does it take to shoot at you when you'll taking out the trash to the garage?
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