Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
A love of liberty which entitles people with the IQ of domestic pets to own loaded weapons is perhaps mistaken.
Don't hold back. Let it all hang out.
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Interesting how Bill is so quick to dismiss those who own guns as having the IQ of domestic pets... nuff said. Ask Germany how gun control worked out for them in the 1930's would you. While you are at it ask why the crime rate in Australia and England is what it is. I believe that rate considerably higher since gun control disarmed the citizens.
I don't recall who authored a quote along these lines: "Man, how easily you are caged."
Bill since I arrived at this site I have proven something to myself; I already knew it but your... conclusion deserves the information.
I have read perhaps 3/4, maybe a little more, of all posts here on the board I have followed certain members of the board w/ some interest even going so far as to recognize their name or writing style on other boards upon which I lurk. I can say the following with no problem whatsoever as I know it to be true and have proven it to myself out of curiosity. Those who espouse the Union Cause are as evenly divided among current political parties and beliefs as those who espouse the CS cause. There are Radical Neo Conservative Republicans and Screaming Liberals on both sides of the aisle. And Card carrying members of the NRA & ACLU as well. I have no problem with such a thing and it makes perfect sense to me. This is the US the most diverse culture on earth.
I am what most would call a Conservative Christian, a Republican; perhaps a bit more radical than some. I listen to my heart and read the Constitution... I also read Blackstone, Plutarch, Gibbon, Keats, Shelly & a plethra of other literary classics. I own several Rifles including replica M1841, M1861 & P53 Enfield. I would like to hope I am a tolerable shot. I consider myself reasonably intelligent, though as a child some stupid Psychologist determined I was highly intelligent... give them what credit you may. I have served my country w/ pride, and continue to do so in a small way. If you were to ask some of those on your side of the aisle I believe you would be suprised at their political leanings; though I hope you don't.
Frankly, anyone who judges an entire nation on just the people who happen to have the same interest in the CW that I do... scares me. That would be like me judging England upon only my experiance w/ you...
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Here in the Great American West we consider gun control to be how steady you hold your weapon.
I'm going to take the LIBERTY of declaring a unilateral truce for Christmas. All folks on the Reb side can relax as I will be holding my fire in honor of Christmas. AND UNION [note the clever way I integrated the title of the thread] supporters can use the time to reload.
Merry Christmas to all, and if you don't celebrate Christmas, Happy Holidays.
Interesting how Bill is so quick to dismiss those who own guns as having the IQ of domestic pets... nuff said.
Well, your point would be well made if I had ever actually dismissed all or most gun owners as having the IQ of domestic pets. Unfortunately, I never said anything of the kind. My objection is to people of severely limited intelligence owning guns. I also object to the same people being able to drive, since an automobile is a potentially lethal weapon. Such an objection is grounded in common sense.
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Frankly, anyone who judges an entire nation on just the people who happen to have the same interest in the CW that I do... scares me. That would be like me judging England upon only my experiance w/ you...
If I was the only Englishman you'd ever communicated with you would be bound to judge my country on the basis of your perception of me. In other words, you'd love it.
I do not contend that one can judge a nation on the basis of conversation with maybe twenty people. But if those are the only twenty people from that country with whom you have ever had contact they are bound to play a huge part in determining how you feel about it. If you spend two weeks on vacation in a foreign country which you have never visited before, you will only come into contact with a handful of natives. But you would have to be a fool to deny that your interaction with those people plays a huge part in determining your overall impression of their country. Intellectually, you know it is foolish. Emotionally, it is impossible to avoid.
If you do me the courtesy of going back and reading what I posted you will find that I never "judged" the United States. I wouldn't be so bloody impertinent. Neither did I criticise any member of CWT. What I actually said was that some opinions expressed here scared me witless. In other words, I strongly disagreed with them.
Let me put it this way for you, Shane. Any policy of your government which you personally support is one which I would want my own government to oppose. With a passion.
Which bit do you object to? The notion that some people are extraordinarily stupid? Or the notion that stupid people shouldn't own guns?
I suppose even extraordinarily stupid people have a fundamental right to provide for their self defense if it is their choice. I supposed that was the essence of liberty.
I'm not aware of any gun control legislation, US or otherwise, which prohibits gun ownership to just 'extraordinarily stupid' citizens. I am aware of much gun control legislation however that in varying degrees attempts to prohibit gun ownership to all in lieu of the selectivity necessary for what you seem to prefer. Are you really just offended by extraordinarily stupid people owning firearms, or anyone and everyone?
I would like to offer my opinion that most firearms are not owned for defense, and in fact are not thought of as "weapons" at all. The personal defense argument just seems to be most applicable to the idea that every person has a right first and foremost to his and his family's well-being. If you don't have a zeal for that liberty, then I question if the zeal for liberty at large is little more than academic.
Extraordinarily stupid people here (in the US) also have a right to free speech, even if they just write extraordinaily stupid things, and buy extraordinarily stupid things, and listen to extraordinarily stupid music, and vote in extraordinarily stupid ways. If we could just learn to legislatively cull out the extraordinarily stupid from the rest, we could make the nation so much better.
Cedarstripper
Last edited by cedarstripper; 12-23-2005 at 01:03 PM.
I assume that you would have reservations about a child handling a loaded gun without close supervision? Well, an adult with limited intelligence is often, in effect, a child.
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Are you really just offended by extraordinarily stupid people owning firearms, or anyone and everyone?
The answers to your two questions are "yes" and "no", respectively.
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Extraordinarily stupid people here also have a right to free speech, even if they just write extraordinaily stupid things, and buy extraordinarily stupid things, and listen to extraordinarily stupid music
Agreed. But you can't harm people by saying stupid things or buying "stupid" things or listening to "stupid" things. If your knuckles trail on the floor and you own a gun you certainly can harm people.
I'll write my Congressman and suggest legislation addressing prohibiting a wide scope of rights for anyone whose knuckles drag on the floor. Should I mention that the concern was first brought up by a person who is very troubled by the deteriorating regard for liberty in the US?
Cedarstripper
Last edited by cedarstripper; 12-23-2005 at 01:10 PM.
Let me put it this way for you, Shane. Any policy of your government which you personally support is one which I would want my own government to oppose. With a passion.
I knew that a long time ago; though I admit it took me a while to believe it. I expect nothing less... I won't waste any bandwidth dealing w/ that one.
Anyone who gathers an opinion on a nation or a race or a culture on a very limited experiance of it is at the very least a fool. That's about as intelligent as watching every episode of Absolutely Fabulous and then claiming to be well versed on British culture.
Getting back to the premise of the thread. I would ask a question
Should liberty only apply to those of a certain level of intelligence? Who will determine that level? What other qualifiers will be added to "intelligence?" Race, creed, gender, age, political opinions?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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