Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Bill, I would like to lend you comfort by saying the opinions you have seen on these boards are not held by many Americans. However, I am troubled to advise you that I have come to the same conclusion you have, based on a much broader cross-section of "man on the street" discussions of the topic. I am almost certain that those sentiments are held by the vast majority of us. I think this is another bitter fruit of the path we took in '61.
Hal
Hmmm...there it is again.
I thought my first post (to Bill) was perhaps a subtle and polite way of suggesting that broad, sweeping generalizations entertained about an aggregate population (especially when they are formed from 'message boards' and 'man on the street' discussions) are in bad form. Moreover, the cobbling together on one's views on foreign policy might be better formed by seeking to understand the facts of the situation at hand....rather than distilling one's foreign policy views from curious and lively discussions about a war that took place 140+ years ago in the United States.
Perhaps it was too subtle and imprecise.
But now, at least, I can have much more appreciation for how Bill might actually form his opinions based on American Civil War message boards...he had the pure dumb luck of hitting on just the right message board that would inform him (in one singular and spectacular post, at that) the thoughts and opinions of 275 million Americans. That is, indeed, efficient and quite the time-saver.
Last edited by CChartreux; 12-22-2005 at 08:00 PM.
At what point do you trade liberty for security? And how does one reconcile the Patriot Act to civil liberties?
Dawna
Dawna, I won't deal on modern politics here; it's the wrong forum. I made the promise long ago not to let current politics ruin a perfectly good board.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Bill,
I refer you to post # 123 on page 13, Switzerland and your average Baron could hardly claim overwhelming power over other nations, unless a member of a royal family, of which, many were not.They both historically had great if not total autonomy from superior authorities.
Respectfully,
Matt
Last edited by milhistbuff1; 12-23-2005 at 03:19 AM.
"Some of the opinions expressed have scared me witless. I have moved from the position of assuming that Americans think just like people in other western democracies to that of assuming more or less the opposite."
"At the time when I first started dabbling in CWT I was happy for my government to routinely back American foreign policy. After a couple of years of absorbing the various opinions floating around CWT I can safelysay that I now have a nearly opposite point of view."
"You may think that such a dramatic change is hardly warranted, but I can only react to the evidence to which I am exposed."
Really?
You would judge all of us here who do not agree with your conclusions concerning the American Civil War as somehow wanting in current affairs or in present-day foreign policy?
Am I now to base my opinion on what England is really like based on my viewing the TV show the Avengers? Or perhaps Benny Hill?
Or do I base my conclusions on the actions of Tony Blair based on observations concerning your views of the Civil War on this board?
Bill, please.
You know my views here on this board concerning this one event of history that took place over 144 years ago, and in spite of how 'chilling' those views might be to you, they are pretty clear.
But please, do not presume to know my position on present day taxes, foreign policy, race relations, the national debt, political parties, etc., based on my observations here. If you ask me about any of the above, you might be in for a bit of a surprise.
To judge a people and a nation based on the opinions expressed at this board makes about as much sense as judging a people by the color of their skin or how wide their eyes are spaced apart.
I'll take the hits for my views on the war here, i.e., neo-unionist, forced unionist, chilling, etc., or for boring everyone by my forever espousing slavery as the cause of the war.
But you are truly in the dark when trying to guess what my views and feelings are concerning other areas away from this forum.
Just as I am concerning any views you hold dear when not involved at this board.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
But you must bear in mind how limited my experience of listening to the opinions of the "American man in the street" has been. Essentially, CWT is my first real exposure to it.
Some of the opinions expressed have scared me witless. I have moved from the position of assuming that Americans think just like people in other western democracies to that of assuming more or less the opposite.
Bill- If I may, the members here at cwt are not your average man in the street American by any means. They are generally well versed and well aware of events and have their own well developed and informed ideas on things. Our everyday average ignorant American man in the street can be every bit as inane as your everday average ignorant European man in the street. Quite frankly, the multitudinous hordes of everyday average ignorant European men in the street give us Americans the heebie jeebies, or they would if we considered them to be the least bit relevant. regards, ed
__________________ 'It is the soldier, not the reporter, who has given us freedom of the press. It is the soldier, not the poet, who has given us freedom of speech. It is the soldier, not the campus organizer, who has given us the freedom to demonstrate. It is the soldier, who salutes the flag, who serves beneath the flag, whose coffin is draped by the flag, who allows the protester to burn the flag'
I fear you have misunderstood me, and the fault is probably mine.
Of course one cannot determine the views of 275 million people on the basis of what is written on these boards. But the plain fact is that the opinions of those people with whom one interacts have a quite disproportionate impact. That may not be logical, but it is human nature.
As a foreigner who has minimal opportunity to chew the fat with Americans I am bound to be influenced by the opinions to which I am exposed here. It is futile to tell me that I shouldn't be. And I'm afraid I have to disagree with you about something else: how a person thinks on a range of modern issues is bound to have an effect on how they view the WBTS.
We disagree on this, as on many things. But it is, I hope, a civilised difference of opinion. Merry Xmas.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Quite frankly, the multitudinous hordes of everyday average ignorant European men in the street give us Americans the heebie jeebies
I don't blame you. Are our glassy-eyed, slack-jawed cretins worse than yours? Well, they are pretty revolting. Hang on, though. Your glassy-eyed, slack-jawed cretins have guns. I'd say that evens things up. It's probably too close to call.
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
