Non Involuntary Servitude Debate

[MobileBoy]

Cash,
Why would a man be more loyal to a far off government in Washington Dc than to his community,family,friends, etch...?You seem to be willfully ignoring my point there.Where would your loyalty honestly be?Not to mention many Southerners considered their state sovreign.Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson considered Virginia their country.Who are you or me for that matter to tell them where their loyalties should be?What right did the Northern states have ?They had no more right than Alexander,Caesar,or Napoleon to embark on conquest.They used violence to force poeple to belong to their nation or empire who didn't want to be.Even worse there was no Northern leader as interesting or inspiring as the aforementioned characters.Does a document of paper mandate that poeple like rats in a cage must obey and take up violence against their own blood?That isn't a logical defense.If all you can come up with is the Constitution to justify coercion then that is really weak in my opinion.And as such a lover of historical record you neglect to recall that this nation was created by breaking British law.Which would then lead one to assume that breaking the law is fine as long as Northerners do it?Do you maintain that it was okay for New England to reject British law but not okay for Southern states to break US LAW?What is your rationale there?If poeple have to blindly follow what government they were born under then by God 99 percent of the history of the world would have been eliminated.Think of all the horrible consequences there would be in life if poeple behaved as you think Southerners of 1861 should have.I don't think you give humans enough credit.We are born with minds,hearts, and the ability to reason.God forbid I ever am so cowardly to not stand up for what I believe is right just because a document is interpreted by some to say so or because a Yankee politician says
so.Arguing against the Confederate government because a piece of paper says so hardly makes your position shine with a golden look in my eyes.It's like when your parent says No because I said so or something to that effect.or basically there is no good explanation so I'll just say that.If I were of the Northern persuasion I would scream the forbidden word and Constitution all day long as well because by all other logic my position would be wrong.Killing large groups of citizens fromstates referred to as sovreign who voted to be left alone to peacefullly rule themselves is an American embarrassment.Coercion is completly hypocritical to the ideology of the founding fathers.Yea right ,Northern armies invading the South really showed the bright light of American democracy to the world huh?It showed the world our hypocricy and that our government was concerned about power as most throughout history have been and the dreams of the founders were but silly pipedreams.

[samgrant]

I'd like to think that there was a misspelling in post #103. Surely, a gentleman from Mobile, Alabama would not stoop to such a characterization, as suggested by Mr. Cash and Mr. Alabaman.

[bill_torrens]

To be fair, wasn't Lincoln frequently referred to as "The Original Ape"? Didn't McClellan call him that?

I agree that it is a ludicrous characterization of such an intelligent man, but Mobileboy was merely making a pun based on a contemporary nickname for Old Abe.

[Calicoboy]

"To fight against your country and say help Germany in WW2 would definitely make one a traitor"



I read this in a previous post. Our current president's grandfather supplied oil to the Germans and set up shell corporations to allow Germany to obtain arms from US factories at the beginning of WWII. Just another factoid from the dirty under belly of history

Calicoboy

[MobileBoy]

Hey Sam,
I must admit it was a spelling mistake I made on purpose.It was somewhat historically relevant since many Southerners referred to him as such.It wasn't a long cleverly planned(obviously) dig just a spur of the moment thing which occurred during my 2 minute post.I must confess I like Grant much more than Lincoln.

[cash]

Originally Posted by MobileBoy

Why would a man be more loyal to a far off government in Washington Dc than to his community,family,friends, etch...?

That's what determines patriots and traitors, I suppose.

Originally Posted by MobileBoy

Robert E. Lee and Stonewall Jackson considered Virginia their country.

Baloney. Lee and Jackson never, ever referred to Virginia as their country. In all his letters, Lee always referred to Virginia as his native state. Prewar he referred to the United States as his country.

Spare us from those who think Shelby Foote's fairy tales on the Ken Burns series have anything to do with actual history. I guess it's just too much trouble to want to see what Lee really said. It's much easier to believe Shelby's yarns.

Originally Posted by MobileBoy

Who are you or me for that matter to tell them where their loyalties should be?

A guy who knows how to read what the Constitution and the law says.

Originally Posted by MobileBoy

What right did the Northern states have ?They had no more right than Alexander,Caesar,or Napoleon to embark on conquest.They used violence to force poeple to belong to their nation or empire who didn't want to be.

Just like the policeman who uses violence to force any other criminal who doesn't want to go to jail to surrender.

Let me know when you read a real history book.

Regards,
Cash

[cash]

Originally Posted by bill_torrens

To be fair, wasn't Lincoln frequently referred to as "The Original Ape"? Didn't McClellan call him that?

I agree that it is a ludicrous characterization of such an intelligent man, but Mobileboy was merely making a pun based on a contemporary nickname for Old Abe.

As previously demonstrated, even if the reference is historically correct it must be verboten.

Unless, of course, we're dealing with a double standard.

Regards,
Cash

[cash]

Originally Posted by MobileBoy

I must admit it was a spelling mistake I made on purpose.

Ah, the fair aroma of hypocrisy.

Regards,
Cash

[MobileBoy]

Bill,
Thanks for the support friend.I certainly respect Lincoln's intelligence and think he was wiser than our Confederate President.I didn't know it was that big a deal for goodness sake.I've read where McClellan said that as well but I don't know if it's varified.

Calicoboy,
If that actually happened then yes that would make him a traitor for sure.After that Bush National Air Guard fiasco I don't trust hardly anything coming from the media.The tv station killed its credibility there in my opinion.I'm not a Republican or Democrat.I support some of both though I normally vote Republican for President.I just wish America would focus on are problems and let the rest of the world solve there's.

[MobileBoy]

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offensive personal attack