Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
If slavery wasn't important to the men who did the fighting and dieing what role did slavery play in their minds? It is pretty conclusive that the 20 slave exemption was not well liked by the fighting men... they certainly felt they were fighting a Rich mans war w/ poor mans blood. Some CS regiments suffered cumulative desertion rates as high as 60%. How much of the realization that men were fighting and dieing for the right of a few hundred rich men to own slaves effect that? My own belief is that it was a myriad of factors w/ poor morale and a realization that this General or that got more men killed... aka Bragg. Along w/ all kinds of other factors that could keep a thread busy for a week.
What exactly were the caused Johhny Reb faught for. PLease be specific from your own research and give examples if possible.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Shane,
This is a very interesting post.If we broke it down by years we would probably find different answers.The easy answer and the best is that they fought because Yankee armies inaded the South.I think the South thought it was fighting for its honor.Many enlisted in the begining expecting a quick Confederate victory .It would be hard to not enlist when most of your community joined the army.To not join risked being ostracized as a coward , and maybe embarrassing your family.I'd say many also dreamed of performing heroic deeds in battle bringing glory to their name.I'd say most Confederate men were fighting for their honor plain and simple.
Regards,
Ashley
While the Southern boy came to believe that they were fighting a rich man's war, this belief didn't come about until the 20 slave rule that followed in the wake of the draft. Many of the Southerners initially believed that they were fighting for states' rights (with its inference of legalized slavery) and the right to secede. Many stayed because of loyalty to each other (modern studies shows that after the initial bloodletting, men stay to fight for each other as opposed to the ideal of "God, King & Country." I would submit that those who stayed did so because of loyalty to their comrades. If they ran, how could they face their comrades when they (the latter) came home? Remember that units were recruited from specific towns or counties and everyone knew everyone else in civilian life. Then again, enough seceded from the war anyway because of their greater sense of duty to their immediate family. Good question.
I'd be hesitant to name any one reason. Probably most, as Gary expressed, fought because their friends, neighbors, and relatives were fighting. It's a bit hard to reconsider your position when you might get home to the stories they could tell about you.
But, initially, they went with their state. It might be a bit difficult for us today to understand that kind of loyalty, but the feeling was quite strong then. Once in, it was difficult to get out.
So you marched, and camped, and marched, and camped. And when the shooting started, you shot back. At that point, I would venture that winning became important, so you fought and tried to win. You did what everyone else did. If you survived long enough, you found that under the talk, your buddies are getting as tired of it as you are. And some of them simply walked away one night and you think about doing that yourself.
You're hungry all the time. You're cold all the time. Your shoes, if you have any, are tied onto your feet with cord that you have to keep replacing. More of your unit disappeared last night, but your cousin is still with you, and a couple of neighbor boys, so you stay a bit longer.
When it is finally over, you ask yourself, "Why did I fight?" And you have no answer.
Ole and Gary,
Good post.I read a book once which simply verbatum wrote down what some Confederate veterans said in conversation at a reunion.It wasn't scholarly but it probably gave more insight into the soldiers life than anything that I have read or likely will read again.Most of their conversation was about everything but the battles.They complained about the taste of food,lack of food,lice was a major complaint,the odor of one another,being dirty,being hot, being cold,marching etch...It gave you a great idea of how the daily life of a soldier was.They did appear to be extremely confident and assured that they had fought for a just cause.At the end of the meeting some officer talked about the war and the sacrifices and apparently most men in the room got tears in their eyes.They talked about the Old South in glowing terms but they didn't really harp on anything bad about the Union.They seemed to be satisfied that they did their duty and that God's will was done even though they didn't understand it or agree with it.They also didn't seem to see themselves as heroes or having done anything extraordinary that men shouldn't do.I'm pretty sure it was the 4th Alabama.They probably had no idea future Southerners would remember them so fondly or admire them so much.They seemed to be men of action and not men into these glowing accounts of battle such as some officers were in their accounts of the war.They also laughed a lot about memories.I sure wish I could recall the book's title.It wasn't long at all I think about 50 pages.
Regards,
Ashley
I see you crediting the Southern Soldier w/ very little intelligence Hal. That would be contrary to my own reading of letters of CS men. THose I have read are pretty literate, very clear headed and most of all not naive about the competance of their officers and the politicians appointed over them.
It didn't take much experiance to figure out that the wealthy rapidly found themselves officers whether they were worthy or not. And those officers could easily resign once things got a little uncomfortable or too hot for their delicate countenance. Wheras the regular Johhny Reb... had no option of resignation; if he decided that he was fighting for a lie or for a General that wasn't worthy of picking up after a mule.... if he opted to "resign" w/ his feet he might well face a firing squad or perhaps worse charges of cowardice. And that same officer who had resigned might well be hailed as a counquering hero upon his return depending upon how well he could spin a yarn. THis was no different NOrth or South w/ the common soldiers bearing the brunt of the fighting and dieing.
Hal, I was asking what motivated the average CS soldier... if you have any ideas please enlighten us.
Mobileboy, thanks for the posts... I agree w/ most of it. I'm particularly inclined to agree w/ the premise that many men stayed in the ranks simply because their friends were still there and through little loyalty to the cause... especially after long periods w/ no pay and less respect..
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
What role? If none as you have a tendency to suggest then what? If you have any more specific suggestions then please be kind enough to share them. You didn't address the premise, or address the core to the question.
If slavery wasn't important (I'm more than willing to admit that) to the men who did the fighting and dieing what role did slavery play in their minds?
What exactly were the caused Johnny Reb fought for. Please be specific from your own research and give examples if possible.
I've got to write down the date, time and occasion... I thought you hated McPherson and seem to recall you saying he had nothing to contribute as an author because of his bias... or something along those lines. Did I misconstrue your position on the subject?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Shane,
I think you misunderstood me about little loyalty to the cause.Sure there was resentment of the wealthy and their privleges,but after the war ex-Confederates not only justified their cause but reveled in it.I think the other factors were critically important however.Personally , I think the idea that the North force its will on the South was so repugnant that for many that was the cause politically and the issue.In other words I think from a political standpoint they saw the North as being much worse than even those danged Southern politicians and upper class.
Regards,
Ashley
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