Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Cedarstripper,
I have to agree with Matthew in that I don't think secession being illegal or legal under the Constitution relates to this thread.That being said I'll never understand how Lincoln breaking the constitution to quote uphold it makes sense.That is kind of like a father who kills his son to save him.My position is if you're going to use the Constitution then use it both ways in a debate.Don't simply use it when it is convenient.
Johan why is it that you always bring up some flaw in the Confederacy or Davis when we're talking about Lincoln or the Union.Perhaps with a less than stellar defense you prefer a good offense aka the USC Trojans.
Elektraig,
If 70 percent or so of the soldiers voted for Lincoln then on the conservative side at least half of the Union civilians (and probably a majority) had issues with the war.Yes some were surely against coercion, some were weary of the cost of lives ,some against emancipation, and some just hated Lincoln.
Regards,
Ashley
It's more like a father kills his neighbor to save his son. He would have violated a law for what was, to him and others, a greater good.
Your statement: "If 70 percent or so of the soldiers voted for Lincoln then on the conservative side at least half of the Union civilians (and probably a majority) had issues with the war.Yes some were surely against coercion, some were weary of the cost of lives ,some against emancipation, and some just hated Lincoln."
This seems to be contrasting soldier voters with civilian voters (this was a civilian, volunteer army). Today, 55 percent would be considered a landslide. To put a different spin on it, if you accept that 40 percent will be hard-liners for one side (for whatever reason) and another 40 percent will be equally intractable for the other, Lincoln won 75 percent of that middle 20 percent.
55 percent would be considered a landslide. To put a different spin on it, if you accept that 40 percent will be hard-liners for one side (for whatever reason) and another 40 percent will be equally intractable for the other, Lincoln won 75 percent of that middle 20 percent.
Ole puts it well. In our two-party system, it's exceedingly rare for any major-party presidential candidate to get less than 40% of the popular vote, because each party has a hard core of voters. In my lifetime, I believe only two winners have garnered more than 60% of the vote, and those were considered blowouts of historic proportions: LBJ got 60.9% of the vote against Goldwater in 1964, and Nixon got 60.7% of the vote against McGovern in 1972.
Ole,
Your example of Lincoln is a more appropriate one than mine and makes the point better.I see your point about the army being civilian, but I'd have to disagree with them being voluntary.By this point many men in blue and gray were draftees.The reason I was wondering about the "army" vote is because if roughly 4 million poeple in all voted and with the milion men in the Union army favoring Lincoln heavily then the the election could have been swung to Lincoln due to the military vote.Oh well ,we don't have enough information to form a solid conclusion one way or the other.I hate when I have questions with no answers.It's kind of like when you forget someone's name .
Elektraig,
Thanks for the comments.You're right any politician would take 55 percent of the popular vote.In my lifetime usually the Southern and Northern states from 1861 support different political candidates.The Southern states of today virtually vote for the same candidate.I'm glad blacks have civil rights , but if they were still disenfranchised said Republican candidate today would receive from 75 percent on up support.Not saying this is a good thing, just recognizing the obvious.Since the Union was basically the Northern states alone in 1864 I was shocked at how close the election was.I guess I thought it might mirror the sectionalism we see in today's elections.I hope you can sift through my statements and figure out what I'm saying.Thanks for your responses.
Regards,
Ashley
I have nothing to cite about this matter of soldiers voting, but I do have the impression from various readings, that the vote of the soldiers may have made the difference in some states in which the votes were close. Certainly the administration gave every encouragement to the military to allow the soldiers to vote, whether by 'absentee', as we now call it, or by furlough to go home to vote.
In any case, it's a wonder that a president in those times and with so many contending forces was reelected.
__________________ -
"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
'Oh well ,we don't have enough information to form a solid conclusion one way or the other."
Au contraire, mon ami. It seems that 70 percent of the civilian-soldier vote (draftees notwithstanding), is a fairly conclusive statement, and the ones who had the mpst reason to hate the war voted the strongest for its CnC.
The military vote may well have swung the election. The point I was so ineptly trying to make is that, military or civilian, it didn't matter. They all fall into the category of "voter."
Our Yankee counterpards need to take heed of the fresh-from-the-dock emigrants who were quickly 'ushered' into Uncle Sam's fight againt his rebellious Southern population.
This freshly arrived soldier material are the ones who often spoke to the lone Georgia civilian upon knocking at the front door: "Veer oh veer ish vein sivevare and vere ish vy nicros gonen. Me fits vit Zerman's army and ish mein duty to tender mein vote fer Aphraham Lincoln. Velhelm, shaadle up vits repel's fine mare for ish repel propherties! ;-)
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