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Civil War History - Secession and Politics Was it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.

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  #1  
Old 10-14-2005, 04:04 PM
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Default An Interview With General Lee

An Interview With General Lee
by Capt. George W. Pepper, Chaplain, 80th Ohio Volunteers

This is a must read if you have an interest in General Lee's thoughts on the war.

Please feel free to coment on your reaction to this interview.
Rick


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Old 10-14-2005, 04:48 PM
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r moody,

Thank you so much for this site.

Again, just when one thinks he has read much of history and seen every document of worth, he is just shown how little he really knows.

A question. Are we sure of this source and this incident taking place? Has the good chaplin's interview with Lee ever been challenged?

Thank you,
Unionblue
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Old 10-14-2005, 06:26 PM
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Very interesting. But not entirely plausible.

The most generous interpretation I can put on it is that the chaplain broadly reflected Lee's sentiments in language which was entirely his own. Lee spoke in understatements; he never used the florid language recorded here.

I am also extremely sceptical about whether Lee would have publicly queried Jefferson Davis's policies at this particular time.

Overall, I suspect that about 20% of the interview reflects Lee's thoughts, albeit in the comic opera language beloved by the chaplain.
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Old 10-14-2005, 08:40 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by unionblue
A question. Are we sure of this source and this incident taking place? Has the good chaplin's interview with Lee ever been challenged?

Thank you,
Unionblue
All I can say is that IIRC it was published before his passing. If he contested it, I have no knowledge of it. IMO it is not out of character for him to speak in this manner after the war. His letters to his family have been published and are available online and downloadable at the Gutenberg Project for free. (Did you know that he liked for his children to tickle his feet?) It’s in his letters.


Rick
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"We made a great mistake in the beginning of our struggle.... We appointed all our worst generals to command our armies, and all our best generals to edit the newspapers"
- Robert E. Lee


The Battle Flag of The Madison Light Artillery (Louisiana)
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  #5  
Old 10-14-2005, 09:21 PM
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I've read elsewhere that when Lee was asked who he thought was the best Union general, he answered McClellan.

Therefore, I googled Pepper:

cache of http://www.teenja.com/p/articles/mi_...8/pg_11?pi=tnj

(59.) George Whitfield Pepper, Under Three Flags: or, The Story of My Life as Preacher, Captain in the Army, Chaplain, Consul, with Speeches and Interviews, by the Reverend George W. Pepper (Cincinnati: Curtis & Jennings, 1899), 333. pepper's ethnic bias and the strange circumstances of the supposed interview (Pepper claimed to have visited Lee's home, unannounced, as Sherman's army marched north through Richmond) combine to cast serious doubt on the authenticity of the Lee quotation. An examination of major sources reveals no statements by Lee on the Irish Brigade or Generals Cleburne and Meagher. Excerpts from this interview nonetheless have been included in popular and scholarly works, including biographies of Meagher and Cleburne and several treatments of the Irish Brigade at Fredericksburg. See Athearn, Thomas Francis Meagher, 121; Barry, John Boyle O'Reilly, 36; Irving A. Buck, Cleburne and His Command (Dayton, Ohio: Morningside Bookshop, 1992), 294; Hernon, Celts, Catholics, and Copperheads, 18; Craig L. Symonds, Stonewall of the West: Patrick Cleburne and the Civil War (Lawrence: University Press of Kansas, 1997), 158.



After the war General Lee was asked who was the best Union general he had fought against His answer was, "McClellan by all odds."

-from: http://www.winstonchurchill.org/i4a/...cfm?pageid=595

On the other hand, who actually made the 'at all odds' quote?:

(10) In 1867 John Singleton Mosby, was interviewed in the Philadelphia Post about the merits of the different generals in the Union Army during the American Civil War.

Whom do you consider the ablest General on the Federal side?" "McClellan, by all odds. I think he is the only man on the Federal side who could have organized the army as it was. Grant had, of course, more successes in the field in the latter part of the war, but Grant only came in to reap the benefits of McClellan's previous efforts. At the same time, I do not wish to disparage General Grant, for he has many abilities, but if Grant had commanded during the first years of the war, we would have gained our independence. Grant's policy of attacking would have been a blessing to us, for we lost more by inaction than we would have lost in battle. After the first Manassas the army took a sort of 'dry rot', and we lost more men by camp diseases than we would have by fighting."

-from: http://web311.********.net/USAgrantU.htm
and: http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-.../1007768/posts

Then again:

Recollections and Letters of General Robert E. Lee
by Captain Robert E. Lee, His Son

Mr. Cassius Lee was my father's first cousin. They had been children
together, schoolmates in boyhood, and lifelong friends and neighbours.
He was my father's trusted adviser in all business matters, and in
him he had the greatest confidence. Mr. Cazenove Lee, of Washington,
D. C., his son, has kindly furnished me with some of his recollections
of this visit, which I give in his own words:

"It is greatly to be regretted that an accurate and full account of
this visit was not preserved, for the conversations during those
two or three days were most interesting and would have filled a
volume. It was the review of a lifetime by two old men. It is believed
that General Lee never talked after the war with as little reserve
as on this occasion. Only my father and two of his boys were present.
I can remember his telling my father of meeting Mr. Leary, their old
teacher at the Alexandria Academy, during his late visit to the
South, which recalled many incidents of their school life. They talked
of the war, and he told of the delay of Jackson in getting on
McClellan's flank, causing the fight at Mechanicsville, which fight
he said was unexpected, but was necessary to prevent McClellan from
entering Richmond, from the front of which most of the troops had been
moved. He thought that if Jackson had been at Gettysburg he would
have gained a victory, 'for' said he, 'Jackson would have held the
heights which Ewell took on the first day.' He said that Ewell was
a fine officer, but would never take the responsibility of exceeding
his orders, and having been ordered to Gettysburg, he would not go
****her and hold the heights beyond the town. I asked him which of
the Federal generals he considered the greatest, and he answered
most emphatically 'McClellan by all odds.' He was asked why he did
not come to Washington after second Manassas.

"'Because,' he replied, 'my men had nothing to eat,' and pointing
to Fort Wade, in the rear of our home, he said, 'I could not tell my
men to take that fort when they had had nothing to eat for three days.
I went to Maryland to feed my army.'

- from: http://www.sonofthesouth.net/leefoun.../chapter23.htm

The exact reply, from both Lee and Mosby?: "McClellan, by all odds."? - not out of the realm of possibility!

OK, I'm done on this quandry, because if Shelby Foote wrote it, I'm prepared to believe it (I'll trust his research):

"Five years after .... he (McClellan) received what was perhaps his finest professional compliment, and received it from the man who had occupied the best of all possible positions from which to formulate a judgement. Asked then who was the ablest Federal general he had opposed thoughout the war, Robert E. Lee replied without hesitation: "McClellan, by all odds."

- pg. 757, Vol. 1, Civil War A Narrative
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Last edited by samgrant; 10-15-2005 at 12:27 AM. Reason: mispelled as usual!
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  #6  
Old 10-14-2005, 10:36 PM
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Samgrant,

Thankyou for your time and efforts on this question. At times, it seems, we are presented with information that would seem all too good to be true and fully support our views. We must be careful and make sure of our sources.

Sincerely,
Unionblue
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Old 10-16-2005, 11:09 PM
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Hey Guys,
I have to take Sam Grant's side to this one as I have read numerous occasions where Lee referred to McClellan as the best Union general.These sources seem bonafide beyond doubt so I won't question them.I'm also in agreement with Bill that the language doesn't sound like Lee.I particularly don't see Lee saying all that he was quoted to say about Jackson.Those negative comments about Stonewall weren't characteristic of Lee referring to anyone much less his right hand man.All of the emotion in the account and excessive verbage also seems out of character.Nor do I foresee him being that open with a anyone much less a Yankee stranger, even if he was a chaplain.As Bill said the language just wasn't consisitent with the way Lee normally spoke.Kind of like if I all of a sudden started expressing myself and view points as colorfully and articulate as Bill.
Ashley
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Old 10-21-2005, 11:05 PM
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One would probably do better to consult Professor William Allan's own conversations with Lee in "Lee Papers." Allan was a professor at Washington College (now Washington & Lee University.)

Also, if it could be located, the writings of Swiss painter Frank Buchser who, after the War, spent several days painting a virtually unknown portrait of Lee that now hangs in the Swiss Parliament. Buchser stated that because he, Buchser, was a foreigner, Lee found it easier to open up to him and eventually discussed the War openly with him, including criticisms of both Jefferson Davis and Grant, and comments on the causes of the War.

Incidentally, in his private diary, Buchser wrote, "What a gentle noble soul, how kind and charming the old white-haired warrior is!" Two days later he added, "One cannot see and know this great soldier without loving him."

Source: "Lee: The Last Years", by Charles Bracelen Flood


Regards,

John W.
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  #9  
Old 10-22-2005, 01:49 AM
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I have a basic distrust of any and all "interviews" with famous people. I will admit that some of it sounds plausible and some of it doesn't. I, personally, simply cannot accept that any interview of anybody is gospel.Too many ifs. Maybe if there were 80 people taking notes in the wings, or we had a tape of it...

I just don't buy it.
Ole
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Old 10-22-2005, 09:17 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
I have a basic distrust of any and all "interviews" with famous people. I will admit that some of it sounds plausible and some of it doesn't. I, personally, simply cannot accept that any interview of anybody is gospel.Too many ifs. Maybe if there were 80 people taking notes in the wings, or we had a tape of it...

I just don't buy it.
Ole
Ole,

Are you referencing the Pepper interview, or the Buchser, Allan interviews? Or all of them?

The thing I like about the supposed Buchser interview, is that he really didn't have a dog in the hunt, in any way. He did his painting, and returned to his Bohemian ways. He seemed to have been more concerned with the world's women and their various attributes than he was an American war. The painting is really unlike any picture that I have seen of Lee. It really portrays a fierceness, that only his battlefield strategy and exploits revealed previously.

I read recently that the painting had been loaned by the Swiss parliament to the Swiss ambassador's residence in New York.

Regards,

John W.
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