Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I am sorry that you do not feel able to discuss secession as an issue distinct from the question of slavery. Any thread in which you do not participate is the poorer for it.
But I thank you for your courtesy in observing the spirit of the thread, and I look forward to "honourable warfare" with you on other threads in the near future.
Unionblue,
Was that not willful misleading?Why didn't you post the data per my request from Confederate states.It would appear to me that the reason you didn't is because well over 90 percent of Confederate male citizens never enlisted in the Union ranks.Look at the state by state record of troop enlistments.Does that tell the same message that you were conveying.Not even close you went from more than 450,000 to less than 100,000.Per my prediction you don't agree with my numbers because it doesn't agree with your glaring personal bias.I'm sure neutral parties would definitely view the enlistment records of the Confederate and Union armies compiled by the National Park Service as an obviously biased Neo-Confederate source.I said nothing at all about Freehling being ignorant. Neil you should have made a distinction between your personal definition of Southern and citizens of the Confederate States of America.Obviously the two aren't the same thing.How many poeple do you know that consider Missouri Southern?I've never heard anyone refer to Saint Louis as being located in the South have you?Neil I have no agenda of advancing a cause.Perhaps my friend that's where you and I differ.I joined this board to learn. http://itd.nps.gov/cwss
Johan,
My friend did you read the titles of the books you listed.It doesn't take a rocket scientist to infer that these books may contain a little bias.They mind as well have flashing lights with a warning.Oh I forgot only authors disagreeing with Northern propaganda are biased.There's no way that an author saying something bad about the South could be biased is there?Why can't you fellows see that line of thinking is irrational?And no Johan I don't think you're ignorant or Unionblue.I think the opposite that's why some of your assertions bother me so.The truth about the war as with most things would be somewhere in the middle.Most of you Northerners stay on this extreme left irrational Neo-Yank side of the spectrum.I would compare you to the extreme abolitionist in the Civil War days.EWC would be an exception as he's generally the most objective poster that I've read.True there also some on the Neo-Confederate side ,but the truth as always lies somewhere in the middle.
Union sympathisers on these boards have previously told me that the number of "Americans" who supported the Revolution and the number who remained loyal to Britain were roughly equal. If a minority of Southerners maintaining loyalty to the Union invalidates the existence of the C.S.A., it follows that an equal number of loyalists more than invalidates the existence of the U.S.A.
Again, you're mischaracterizing my comments, Bill. I never said the fact that 1/3 of southerners in arms fought for the Union invalidates the existence of the CSA, so I will thank you to please stop putting words in my mouth. My clear point is the fact that 1/3 of southerners in arms fought for the Union proves there was a sizeable portion of southerners who were Unionist and they would be the solid core for reconciliation if Jefferson Davis had not started the conflict at Fort Sumter.
If we can respond to what is actually said instead of things that aren't said I think we'll find the conversation will be much more enjoyable.
Some of you Northerners are just plain ridiculous or plain ignorant.
More insults, Ashley?
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBoy
Is it that hard to comprehend that Southern according to Freelingh doesn't mean citizens of the Confederate states of America.
I don't think any "Northerners" [I suppose you include me in that even though I live in the West] claim that "southerners" equals only CSA. When I say "southerners" I mean "southerners." That is, people who live in the lower and upper south. In 1860, that was all of the slave states except Delaware. While a good case can be made for including Delaware, I personally don't. As can be easily seen, this includes the states of Maryland, Kentucky, and Missouri, which did not secede.
However, every southern state provided regiments that served in the Union armies, and every southern state except South Carolina provided white regiments that served in the Union armies.
Quote:
Originally Posted by MobileBoy
Now here's the breakdown in the Confederate states of troop enlistments.
Alabama 197,421 Confederates to only 2,835 Yanks
South Carolina 133,602 Confederates to only 93 Yanks
Virginia 281,205 Confederates to only 2,595 Yanks
Texas 159,031 Confederates to only 4,370 Yanks
Mississippi 173,935 Confederates to only 903 Yanks
Arkansas 108,020 Confederates to only 12,496 Yanks
Florida 35,245 Confederates to only 2,835 Yanks
North Carolina 197,314 to only
Georgia 244,812 Confederates to only 195 Yanks
Loisiana 128,256 Confederates to only 14,686 Yanks
Tennessee 195,805 Confederates to only 54,086 Yanks
---------------
You're only counting whites, Ashley. What's the matter, don't you consider blacks to be people? Or do you not consider blacks to be southerners? What is pathetic to you--counting blacks as southerners or not counting blacks as southerners?
well over 90 percent of Confederate male citizens never enlisted in the Union ranks.
So again, Ashley, it seems that you either don't consider black men from confederate states to be people or you don't consider them to be southerners. I'm frankly very troubled by the appearances here.
Go back and reread my post .Perhaps you should have listened more in school.You see I'm FRANKLY troubled that you don't know the difference between a citizen and a person.You see my confused friend a tourist from Belgium visting the gulf coast is a person residing in the South.IF this is too complicated for you I can backtrack.Is that person a citizen of the United States I ask you?The answer would be NO.You see my friend the words citizen and poeple are not nor have they ever been synonymous.How can I word this more plainly so you can get it?What would you have me do limit my vocabulary(which is not extensive anyway)so you can follow.
And nobody today except maybe you considers Missouri to be Southern including Missourians themselves.To refer to Missouri as a slave state or border state would be accurate.So to include those 195,303 troops and lump them in together under the name Southern is very misleading.THERE WERE MORE THAN TWICE AS MANY UNION SOLDIERS FROM MISSOURI AS THERE WERE FROM ALL OF THE STATES OF THE CONFEDERACY ADDED TOGETHER.So the facts are most of the Confederate citizenry were united in their cause for independence.And what relevance does the enlistment of states remaining in the Union have to do with discussing the sentiments of men in the Confederacy?None.That would be like me writing a book a book about how Canadians felt about the war.I value their opinion but it wouldn't tell me how poeple in the Union felt at the time would it?
Cash:
I can say with great certainty, Ashley considers blacks as people. His words concerning his point did not direct me otherwise. Ashley is an Educator and some of his students are black. I truly and honorably submit to you as a friend and fellow member, lurking but learning, please re-read what he really said and really meant.
Respectfully, Rob Adams
Thank you Rob,
I by choice teach at B.C.Rain high school in Mobile.Of all of my classes I don't have one student who isn't black.All of my football players are black as well including the ones I give a ride home after practice every day.I'm the one and only white on the football coaching staff.This summer I'll be loading up my truck and driving a few players to football camps in hopes of improving their chances at earning a scholarship.
If we can respond to what is actually said instead of things that aren't said I think we'll find the conversation will be much more enjoyable.
I regret to say that I have lost the capacity to enjoy conversations with you. You have virtually (perhaps actually) libelled MobileBoy twice today. I'm afraid I cannot have any further communication with you on this or any other thread.
It is no small matter to insinuate that someone is a racist. This can't be shrugged off or laughed away.
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