Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Do you think Union artillery willfully shelled nonmilitary targets in Atlanta or were all those private dwellings, churches and etc.hit, poor marksmanship?
Is it your assumption that the destruction shown in the photos Dawna has posted are all the results of direct hits from artillery? While the photo of the Potter House (post 490) certainly appears to have been a direct hit, the exterior masonry being intact in most of the other photos leads me to believe they were lost to fire alone.
Unless these buildings had slate or metal roofs, it was common in the days up to WWll for fires to spread to both neighboring and not-so-neighboring buildings due to airborne burning debris landing on wood shingle roofs. Do we have anything to indicate to us that the chuches were actually hit by artillery?
*note that the roof on the Potter House is still intact, indicating that the artillery hit most likely did not result in any fire.
Yes, the Potter home was used as target practice for Union artillerymen during the Atlanta fighting. And yes, the damage is definitely the results of artillery fire. The CS defenses would be toward the lower left corner of Dawna's photo; it's the picket fence like aparatus which preceedes the ditches or trenches.
You've never read accounts of Union artillery using 'unsual appearing' structures, prominently visible for long distances by Union gunners, for target practice? I'm shocked...really! Union gunners thought it great 'fun' to send a shell crashing into these nonmilitry civilian structures. One church in Atlanta had a tall steeple and a large church bell. The gunners tried their best to hit the bell and it's supporting structure with rifled fieldpiees. It became a contest as to which gunner could claim the 'target.' I wish I could recall the Union gunner's name and memoir which I read, but this was 20 years ago?
The Potter house was an unfinished structure that was targeted particularly early into the seige. The "fire" damage you report viewing was caused directly from Union artillery shells setting it on fire. But the large, round holes were from solid shot and also from bolts from rifled Union guns. I forget that most of you have never seen what a rifle bolt actually does to any type of structure such as the Potter home, like me. Think of a wound on a deer from one of your rifles; you have a small entry wound, larger wound channel (the burned look, inside the house) and usually an exit wound. Most of the rounds would penetrate through and through without causing structural collapse. With a corect fuse, they exploded directly after penetration of the target. Thus, this house, badly damaged still stands. Apply this to the Potter home and there you have it.
Proof positive; the Union army fired indiscriminately on nonmilitary southern civilian targets with no probem from officers. Sherman let them do it.
You've never read accounts of Union artillery using 'unsual appearing' structures, prominently visible for long distances by Union gunners, for target practice? I'm shocked...really!
I'm not up much on the actual fighting. I usually don't comment on much other than secession issues.
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One church in Atlanta had a tall steeple and a large church bell. The gunners tried their best to hit the bell and it's supporting structure with rifled fieldpiees.
Sounds like something I could easily have taken part in, if I had been through the pain of that much war and was in the "backyard" of the folks I felt were responsible for it. Do you suppose American soldiers did very similar things throughout subsequent wars?
Yes, the Potter home was used as target practice for Union artillerymen during the Atlanta fighting. And yes, the damage is definitely the results of artillery fire. The CS defenses would be toward the lower left corner of Dawna's photo; it's the picket fence like aparatus which preceedes the ditches or trenches.
If the apparatus is an abati, then there were defending forces very near the Potter home. One could conclude that the shelling was directed at them. No?
The deer/wound channel theory doesn't add up. A deer is full of stuff which burns and transmits a shock wave. A house is not.
And the house does appear to have been hit more than once with solid shot. Would the distance have precluded shell?
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
Did I say anything to sound belittling to you? If so I didn't intend to.
You would like to take part in the possibility of killing little children and other civilians?? That's what really happened when these Union artillerymen fired indiscriminately into houses, churches and other occupied structures. For me, I'd have rather skewered an enemy soldier than kill an innocent child or old slave. I think you are jesting and trying to get old Alabaman riled up. I'll just consider that you're a good ol' fellow deer hunter and leave that comment alone. :-)
Yes, American soldiers have probably fired into or bombed occupied houses, cities and homes, respectively. I've never met one ex-military man who didn't get older and regret killing innocent people 'colaterally.' Cedar, one of the civilians killed in Atlanta was a pretty little girl and her father. I guess you (possibly?) could do this without regret, but as for Alabaman, I wouldn't wish to cause such misery for a family of northern folks, due to hating the ones that caused me to be fighting near wherever. I'd take on the best Yank wih my bayonet and feel much differently after walking away, than killing a civilian from target practice.
If the apparatus is an abati, then there were defending forces very near the Potter home. One could conclude that the shelling was directed at them. No?
It was. But many other structures, nonmilitary in nature, weren't close to any fighting or military value targets of opportunity, unless praying is considered a hostile military act?
The deer/wound channel theory doesn't add up. A deer is full of stuff which burns and transmits a shock wave. A house is not.
High velocity, Ole, is the key. Pass in and pass on through, as in shot from rifled pieces. Exploding shells would cause more damage. The Potter house damage has to do with mass and velocity; have you ever studied physics?
And the house does appear to have been hit more than once with solid shot. Would the distance have precluded shell?
Ole
Solid shot, bolts and exploding shell hit the Potter home, to my recollection. The fire was stared by an incendiary shell. The Union works were 1/4 mile away, I think?
Did I say anything to sound belittling to you? If so I didn't intend to.
No. What makes you think so?
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You would like to take part in the possibility of killing little children and other civilians??
Actually, I referring more to trying to ring the bell. I know the comment is a little careless, but honestly, had I been through the kind of killing and dying and suffering that soldiers had, its not too hard to imagine that taking potshots at a church bell would maybe not be as unagreeable as otherwise. I'm just thinking about the hardened outlook that must have become a part of many an infantry and artilleryman's constitution - Union and Confederate alike. Its easy to sit in the comfort and security of my den and be noble, but I'm not that confident that such nobility would not wane a little after a couple of years on the march. But please don't take it that by ringing a church bell with a canon I mean to shoot down little girls.
As I'm not familiar with the specifics of the taking of Atlanta, I'll refrain from further comment, other than to say that after reading the Lieber Code, many things that turn my appetite were accepted rules of war. I am not ready to condemn anyone without knowing the whole story and the conditions of engagement.
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