Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
todays US Armed Forces have gone out of ourway, even at a risk to our own lives, to prevent civilian casualties (not redily reported, as the media would rather report our mistakes and failures).
Unfortunately, no system is perfect, and civilians still die in war, even though we try to prevent it. When one decides to go to war, one must accept the fact that regrettably innocent civilians will die and will be horribly maimed and injured in other ways as well.
Hey Cash,
That was a rather appropriate quote.I apologize for the idiots out there with Confederate sympathies celebrating the criminals you mentioned.There acts were despicable as well.I'll holler at you later friend ,I must go to football practice.It does wonders for my self-esteem as a coach to have to keep reteaching the same plays over and over.
Ashley
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Hehehehehe ... reminds me of a quote I've heard. The most common first name for history teachers in the United States is "Coach."
This is true. When I first put on the uniform, I knew what the risk was. I never asked any civilians to share that risk.
__________________ F. S. Powers
Union Ancersor: Pvt Arnuah Norton, 60th Ohio. (G-G-G Grandfather) Died at Salisbury NC, November 3, 1864
Confederate Ancestors: Captain Thomas A. Morrow, 29th Texas Cavalry (G-G-G- Uncle) and 2LT George W. Morrow, 31st Texas Cavalry (G-G-G Grandfather). Both survived the war
Cash:
Yes. I've read very similar quotes from Gen. Tibbets.
The times I sat down and had conversation with General Tibbets concerning WW II were very revealing, concerning war and its consequences. However, both Gen. Tibbets & I agreed that Japanese atrocities and the horrible, predicted numbers of American KIA projected along with a larger Japanese military/civilian KIA via ground force mainland invasion of Japan, cancelled all other options. Gen. Tibbets' reply on one ocaision, and a quote I asked for him to write and sign, read: "Made it on time to Hiroshima." Gen. Paul Tibbets. He told me he followed orders and was proud to do so. Anyone knew the man, knows this. Take my word for it.
General Paul Tibbets son, my old Pharmacology Professor
never indicated a change in his dads dedication to his deed.
The atrocities of Niponese Imperial/ground troops upon American POW's and projected US KIA via invasion, are the key words. South Carolina had no CS atrocities nor was their a viable CS Army in the vicinity.
Any comparison of South Carolina in 1860 to Hiroshima is nonsense and totally void of substance. These were two entirely different circumstances.
No person on this forum has read of myself or Mobileboy waving the "Bloody" Bill Anderson or Quantrill as Confederate heroes. The two were actually Partisan Rangers/Guerilla's; not enlisted CS Officers. Other Boards do not matter to me. Only this one, CWT concerns me. I see no substance to views of other Boards as being germane to our discussion.
I recall Major Gen. J.E.B. Stuart being wounded by an American Native's arrow. I haven't read of him shooting an 'Indian' in another war.
I read where R.E. Lee had a pet rattlesnake in Texas. Again just speculation not germane to our discussion.
John Wilkes Booth was a actor who shot President Lincoln via his revenge over the South's loss of the WBTS. He was a murderer. I don't like murderers, even of President Abraham Lincoln, my ancestors' enemy's leader. John Wilkes Booth and his deed is just that; his. I leave judgement to God. But, J.W.B. is once more, not germane to the US Army under Gen. W.T. Sherman burning occupied Southern Towns and private property. Undefended Occupied Towns & private homes.
Sorry, Cash. I don't buy your attempt at defending atrocities committed per Union Armies under the Lincoln Administration. That horse is lame.
Cash;
Seriously, if you desire to continue a civil debate and/or discussion to the fact at hand, good. If you are not sincere and allow your emotions to over-rule your judgement by silly, child-like behavior, I'll beg out.
I realize, and appreciate your allotment to a tendency to get mad, we all do but, I see it revealing upon your conduct as a gentleman debator that I have enjoyed to debate.
Please stop this. Its not good for the board or you.
not germane to the US Army under Gen. W.T. Sherman burning occupied Southern Towns and private property. Undefended Occupied Towns & private homes.
Mostly mythology. Sherman burned public property. It's true that against his orders some of his men did burn private dwellings that were unoccupied, but the mythology that Sherman burned occupied southern towns holds no water, Rob.
Cash;
Seriously, if you desire to continue a civil debate and/or discussion to the fact at hand, good. If you are not sincere and allow your emotions to over-rule your judgement by silly, child-like behavior, I'll beg out.
I realize, and appreciate your allotment to a tendency to get mad, we all do but, I see it revealing upon your conduct as a gentleman debator that I have enjoyed to debate.
Please stop this. Its not good for the board or you.
Very Respectfully,
Rob Adams
Rob,
What are you talking about? Why are you engaging in this personal attack? I responded to Ashley's post in a clear and respectful manner, bringing up my personal observations.
Excerpts from "The Fiery Trail" (by Thomas Osborn, A Union Officer's Account of Sherman's Last Campaign)
02 FEB 1865 - Rivers' Bridge - Salkehatchire River. Federal losses about a dozen men killed and wounded. Confederate dead reported by Federal forces - four. "We took last evening seven prisoners, and this morning picked up a few more. We learn that the 5th, 37th, 47th Georgia Infantry Regiments were here also 5th South Carolina Artillery, 4th Tennessee Cavalry, also two companies of Texas Cavalry, in all 2700 men, commanded by Colonel Harrison, 32nd Ga. Infantry."9 "At McBride's plantation, where Sherman had his headquarters, the out-houses, offices, shanties, and surroundings were all set on fire before he left. I think the fire approaching the dwelling hastened his departure... In Georgia few houses were burned; here few escaped, and the country was converted into one vast bonfire. The pine forests were fired; the resin factories were fired; the public buildings and private dwellings were fired. The middle of the finest day looked black and gloomy, for a dense smoke rose on all sides clouding the very heavens - at night the tall pine trees seemed so many huge pillars of fire. The flames hissed and screeched, as they fed on the fat resin and dry branches, imparting to the forest a most fearful appearance... The ruins of homesteads of the Palmetto State will long be remembered. The army might safely march the darkest night, the crackling pine woods shooting up their columns of flame, and the burning houses along the way would light it on, while the dark clouds and pillars of smoke would safely cover its rears. I hazard nothing in saying that three-fifths of value of the personal property of the counties we passed through were taken by Sherman's army."
03 FEB 1865 - Federal forces reach the Salkahatchie river. "The actual invasion of South Carolina has begun... The well-known sight of columns of black smoke meets our gaze again; this time houses are burning, and South Carolina has commenced to pay an installment, long overdue, on her debt to justice and humanity. With the help of God, we will have principal and interest before we leave her borders. There is a terrible gladness in the realization of so many hopes and wishes. This cowardly traitor state, secure from harm, as she thought, in her central position, with hellish haste dragged her Southern sisters into the caldron of secession. Little did she dream that the hated flag would again wave over her soil; but this bright morning a thousand Union banners are floating in the breeze, and the ground trembles beneath the tramp of thousands of brave Northmen, who know their mission, and will perform it to the end."
12 FEB 1865 - Orangeburg "Orangeburg contains about 800 people, and was, before we entered it a fine little place with a fair proportion of churches, small cotton brokers' establishments, &c &c... If the town had been built on purpose for a bonfire it could not have been bettered. All that could be done was to watch it on the windward side and the outskirts of the town. We occupied the town at 2 P. M. and at four one third or one half of the town was on fire and burning with the greatest rapidity. I think one half of the body of the town was destroyed. The fires was not so extensive as the one in Atlanta, but more grand and beautiful."
13 FEB 1865 - Big Beaver Creek "Today has been beautiful, clear and still. From the starting of the column this morning we could trace the tracks of each by the column of smoke from burning buildings, cotton, turpentine mills, pine woods &c. [Along] the line of the XVII A.C. on the R. R. the smoke lifted like a grand curtain here and there, tassled by a more dense column of smoke from a store house of cotton or resin. The columns of smoke which marked Logan's line of march were more isolated, but in themselves were very dense. Many of these columns were really wonderful. The smoke rising from the pitch fields rolled up in volumes to the sky so impenetrable that not a ray of light could be seen through them. They looked like a dozen cities burning at the same time. I wish I had the power of describing the grandeur of this scene."
18 FEB 1865 - Columbia surrendered to the Federal forces - subsequently burned. "... when the brigade occupied the town the citizens and negroes brought out whiskey in buckets, bottles and in every conceivable manner treated the men to all they would drink. ... The negroes, escaped prisoners, state convicts, and such other people as would all went into the work of pillaging with a will. By this time all parties were willing to assist it on... The negroes piloted the men to the best places for plunder, and both men and negroes by evening were setting fires rapidly... One cannot conceive of anything which would or could make a grander fire than this one, excepting a larger city than Columbia. The city was built entirely of wood, and was in most excellent condition to burn. The space on fire at midnight was not less than one mile square, and one week before, sheltered from 25,000 to 30,000 people. The flames rolled and heaved like the waves of the ocean; the road was like a cataract. The whole air was filled with burning cinders, and fragments of fire as thick as the flakes of snow in a storm. The scene was splendid - magnificently grand. The scene of pillaging, the suffering and terror of the citizens, the arresting of and shooting negroes, and our frantic and drunken soldiers... this I will leave for the present for the imagination of those who choose to dwell upon it... I have in this war seen too much... and choose rather to remember the magnificent splendor of this burning city... I believe the burning of the city is an advantage to the cause and a just retribution to the state of South Carolina.
Charleston, South Carolina Ruins, in 1865
"What a cruel thing is war: to separate and destroy families and friends, and mar the purest joys and happiness God has granted us in this world; to fill our hearts with hatred instead of love for our neighbors, and to devastate the fair face of this beautiful world."~Robert E. Lee~
I reference your comment to my friend & very intelligent young man, Mobileboy (Ashley) in post # 32.
This represents a poor attempt of hiding a cowardly insult to a man's occupation per your 'yellow' smiley face. Your reply with such a comment is most telling and dishonorable.
Another Yankee member of this Board has pre-empted with a similar comment. He failed also.
I have represented myself honorably and very respectfully to you, Cash. Remove your blinders and read your post #32, carefully.
One man's insult may be another man's humor. MobileBoy appears to be able to take care of himself. How about we see if he is upset or offended instead of stirring up the pot til it boils over.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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