Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
A few here on this board have stated that the war of 1861 was simply a repeat of the one of 1776.
In your own view, what were the similarities and differences between the American Revolutionary War and the American Civil War? Were they one and the same, a 'Second American Revolution' or entirely different?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Neil:
There is a similarity, but it is tenuous. The Confederacy maintained that it wanted to return to the basics of liberty as espoused in the Constitution and the Declaration of Independence. In fact, it was to the Articles of Confederation they wanted to return.
The seed of the conflict might be attributed to Calhoun. His "rule of the minority" constructions seem to have started the movement towards state soverignty and separation.
One of the most fortuitous differences is that in 1776 we had a collection of statesmen such as the world rarely sees -- Washington, Jefferson, Adams, Madison, Franklin, to name a few. The world gets one of their equal every now and then -- we had the good fortune to have many of such singular people at one time. On this great luck is based the USofA.
The similarity, the Confederacy was convinced it was returning to the basics. The difference, the Confederacy was convinced it was returning to the basics.
Russ, you blue-eyed devil you , I notice in the US Declaration of Independence, there is presented a list of grievences which the delegates listed. Check them out here at this site:
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
It is interesting to speculate whether the people inhabiting the colonies in 1776 were British or American. I don't mean legally, but culturally. Had they grown into a distinct and separate people over the years?
If they had, it is also interesting to consider whether, in the same natural and gradual manner, Southerners had evolved into a distinct and separate people by 1861. Again, I'm speaking culturally rather than legally.
And it is just as interesting to speculate whether, if they had become a separate people, subjugation made any difference to that condition. Or have they remained separate and distinct to this day?
Lastly, if the American Revolution had ended in defeat - as it could easily have done - would academics today be talking about the illusory nature of American nationalism?
Neil,
If they had, it is also interesting to consider whether, in the same natural and gradual manner, Southerners had evolved into a distinct and separate people by 1861. Again, I'm speaking culturally rather than legally.
And it is just as interesting to speculate whether, if they had become a separate people, subjugation made any difference to that condition. Or have they remained separate and distinct to this day?
Bill
Sanity, brevity and erudition in a short post. To your question -- "have they remained separate and distinct to this day?" -- there remains a charming and unique distinction. This is, for the most part, fading with the mobility of both populations, but the best parts of the difference can still be found. The subjugation you speak of is illusory. Not entirely forgotten, but gone from the consensus.
What was that line in the movie 'Gettysburg' spoken by the Col. Arthur Freemantle character when he spoke to General Longstreet on the similarities between the North and the South?
"The same God, same language, same culture and history, same songs, stories, legends, myths - different dreams. Different dreams. So very sad."
So very sad.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Compare the Declaration of Independence with the Southern Secession documents. Do you see more similarities or differences between the two sets of said documents?
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
To me, the term 'Second American Revolution' adequately states the case for the Civil War. A section of the Union no longer wished to be governed as it was and wished to set up a government more to their liking. This is what the South did, and what the Amrerican Patriots had done. Whatever moral right or political right or lawful right inherent in the act was then and will always be secondary to making it happen and having it survive. The vast difference in the two revolutions though is that in the 1776 revolution, a body of people- the American colonies, wanted say in the decisions which affected them, of which they had none, all decisions being made in a far off land by an elected group of which they had no part, and a king. in 1860, the South did have say- and protections, in the established government, even took part in the election that brought about a president they did not want and decided they were no longer satisfied with the present form of government in which they had been full participants.
In truth, the Southern slaveholding class (the dominant Southern institution) was between a rock and a hard place. Work within the Union and their power and influence and control of slavery was bound to continue to diminish, or risk all and gamble and hopefully thusly preserve all these things. I find the choice they made entirely understandable. However, it was a choice which necessitated fighting to preserve- they were goint to have to win their survival on the battlefield, not in the courthouse. And that too is true of the Patriots. All their rights of man and governance and like ideals would end at the end of a noose if the War of Independence were lost.
Well said, ewc, and welcome back -- it's been a while.
Ole:
Neil:
The words seem more similar than different. There is, however, a signicance in the differences. Will read these at more leisure, and comment on your post at greater length.
Ole
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1776 & 1861. 
, I notice in the US Declaration of Independence, there is presented a list of grievences which the delegates listed. Check them out here at this site:
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