Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Did the "other" 13th amendment ever become ratified and part of the Constitution?
Unionblue
Rather depends on who you believe, im of the opinion that there is a lot of intresting stuff on this, and to dismiss it as silly etc, is simply to miss out on intresting stuff.
13th (current one) is an open amendement and can, and i think was in the 60`s or 70`s tried by Texas to get amended, to me these kind of things are intresting, to others, they are silly.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
An over looked effect of EP was it allowed Lincoln to recruit Black Americans into the army. A simple storke of the pen and he had add another Corp. to the union army.
Ingenious!!!
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Rather depends on who you believe, im of the opinion that there is a lot of intresting stuff on this, and to dismiss it as silly etc, is simply to miss out on intresting stuff.
13th (current one) is an open amendement and can, and i think was in the 60`s or 70`s tried by Texas to get amended, to me these kind of things are intresting, to others, they are silly.
No, Hanny, it never was ratified by enough states to become part of the Constitution. This is very clear if you bother to be objective about it.
In 1810 when it was passed out of Congress to the states, ratification by 13 states was required. By the time the 12th state ratified it in 1812, Louisiana had entered the Union, moving the number required to 14. Even if we close our eyes and make believe Virginia had ratified it by publishing a book that erroneously included it (they never voted to ratify it) in 1819, by then more states had entered the Union and 16 states were required for ratification to be accepted. There never was a time when the Amendment was even as close as one ratification away as a result, and today it is 26 states short of the required minimum.
These are the facts. All the rest of this is just a waste of space on the Internet.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Rather depends on who you believe, im of the opinion that there is a lot of intresting stuff on this, and to dismiss it as silly etc, is simply to miss out on intresting stuff.
13th (current one) is an open amendement and can, and i think was in the 60`s or 70`s tried by Texas to get amended, to me these kind of things are intresting, to others, they are silly.
The problem is, you did not propose it as something of mere historical interest. Your original post indicated that this was some grand conspiracy to cover up an amendment "deleted" from the Constitution.
So even if it is interesting from a history of the Constitution perspective, it is complete and utter silliness if one advances is, as you did, as some part of a grand conspiracy.
Silliness. To the extreme.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
Rather depends on who you believe, im of the opinion that there is a lot of intresting stuff on this, and to dismiss it as silly etc, is simply to miss out on intresting stuff.
13th (current one) is an open amendement and can, and i think was in the 60`s or 70`s tried by Texas to get amended, to me these kind of things are intresting, to others, they are silly.
Friend Hanny,
I was asking you directly if the "other" 13th amendment had ever been ratified by the states and become part of the US Constitution.
This is a question that is not based on opinion or discussion about its history, etc. It is a clear "yes" or "no" answer type of question and I believe you know the answer, just as I do.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
This thread on the Emancipation Proclamation, which has produced some good info, has lost focus as a steaming pile of irrelevant stuff has been dropped on it. The mysterious, non ratified 13th amendments sounds like a topic so interesting it deserves its own thread.
No, Hanny, it never was ratified by enough states to become part of the Constitution. This is very clear if you bother to be objective about it.
You seem to keep argueing against a point i never put, kindly keep your strawman away!!.
the last outing of the 13th was in Feb 60 when as a last attempt to avoid war, it went through House and Senate and went to the states for ratification, expressly forbidding any further amndement on removing slavery where it existed, slaver was thus given the highest constional protection ity could be given in an unamndable amendment that gaurentted it for all time. hardly silly, but very intresting.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
The problem is, you did not propose it as something of mere historical interest. Your original post indicated that this was some grand conspiracy to cover up an amendment "deleted" from the Constitution.
Nope thats not the problem, the problem is i entered it, as per BCF page 256 as used by McPherson, as the last time the 13th went for ratification to the states, along with the proposed compenstated emncipation to the border states in 62 as to what beowulf may have been refering to. From that others have gone off on their own tirade about this or that, yours is that the post that introduces it indicates some kind of grand conspircy etc.
Quote:
So even if it is interesting from a history of the Constitution perspective, it is complete and utter silliness if one advances is, as you did, as some part of a grand conspiracy.
since thats someything i did not do, or hope i did not do, i am at a loss to counter a posistion i have not taken.
Quote:
Silliness. To the extreme.
But worth half a page in BCF to McPherson, not for being silly, but because of what it means.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
I was asking you directly if the "other" 13th amendment had ever been ratified by the states and become part of the US Constitution.
This is a question that is not based on opinion or discussion about its history, etc. It is a clear "yes" or "no" answer type of question and I believe you know the answer, just as I do.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
No is the answer, as you already knew.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
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