Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Battalion,
An earlier poster had stated that the "slavery is great!" amendment was "eradicated" from the Constitution. Which is why I made the point that it was never IN the Constitution.
As I stated before, the limitations to the EP stemmed from legal concerns, not from a desire to protect slavery. Lincoln didn't want the Taney Court ruling against it. Check Guezlo's book for a detailed description of the drafting of the document.
The salient point about the Emancipation Proclamation, the obvious point, was that Union victory meant the end for slavery in this country. The 13th amendment would be the coup de grace, but the EP was the fatal wound.
Few refers to "few places." However...
800,000 sounds like a lot, but if that number is correct, it means the EP freed 80% of the slaves in the United States. Most of the remaining slaves were in the states where slavery already weakest and nearest extinction: border states like Kentucky and Maryland. Isn't it obvious by the result? Slavery didn't survive.
The EP was a crossing of the Rubicon. You can complain it was a ugly bridge, the toll was too high and river was muddy, but it was still a crossing.
I think he refers to compenasted emancipation to the border states in 1862 that did not pass.
Only other one i know is the original 13th.
Wrong on both.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanny
For further discussion and the history of the Original Thirteenth Amendment see "Demon of Discord, Ratification and Suppression of the Original Thirteenth Article of Amendment to the Constitution of the United States." On December 3, 1860, the month after Lincoln was elected, President Buchanan asked Congress to propose an "explanatory amendment". It was to be another 13th Amendment, to eradicate and cover-up the deletion of the Original Thirteenth Title of Nobility and Honour Amendment.
Conspiracy theory claptrap.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hanny
In the tumult of 1865, the original Thirteenth Amendment was removed from our Constitution.
An unratified amendment wouldn't need to be removed from the Constitution since it never became part of the Constitution. Typical of the lack of credibility we see from some parts.
But it was approved by a Northern dominated Congress right on the eve of the Civil War. A glaring inconsistency.
Not to those who actually understand history.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
You forgot Tennessee and parts of Louisiana and Virginia. Not only that...but I believe if persons in 'rebellious states' could prove their loyalty they could also keep their slaves.
Wrong as usual. The areas that were under Union control at the time Lincoln drafted the EP were excepted. People who don't understand this time period think "if people in rebellious states could prove their loyalty they could also keep their slaves."
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
The war ended and there was still slavery.
Not really true.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
800,000 is a few?
Not that I really believe your number, but let's assume it's true. Compared to over 4 million, it's a few, relatively speaking.
"if people in rebellious states could prove their loyalty they could also keep their slaves."
Not really true.
Regards,
Cash
Cash,
Did the EP give a timeframe, say several months, for the seceded states to return to the Union and, thereby, be allowed to keep their slaves? I thought I read that somewhere.
Did the EP give a timeframe, say several months, for the seceded states to return to the Union and, thereby, be allowed to keep their slaves? I thought I read that somewhere.
clara
Here is the EP.
The Emancipation Proclamation January 1, 1863A Transcription
By the President of the United States of America:
A Proclamation.
Whereas, on the twenty-second day of September, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-two, a proclamation was issued by the President of the United States, containing, among other things, the following, to wit:
"That on the first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, all persons held as slaves within any State or designated part of a State, the people whereof shall then be in rebellion against the United States, shall be then, thenceforward, and forever free; and the Executive Government of the United States, including the military and naval authority thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of such persons, and will do no act or acts to repress such persons, or any of them, in any efforts they may make for their actual freedom.
"That the Executive will, on the first day of January aforesaid, by proclamation, designate the States and parts of States, if any, in which the people thereof, respectively, shall then be in rebellion against the United States; and the fact that any State, or the people thereof, shall on that day be, in good faith, represented in the Congress of the United States by members chosen thereto at elections wherein a majority of the qualified voters of such State shall have participated, shall, in the absence of strong countervailing testimony, be deemed conclusive evidence that such State, and the people thereof, are not then in rebellion against the United States."
Now, therefore I, Abraham Lincoln, President of the United States, by virtue of the power in me vested as Commander-in-Chief, of the Army and Navy of the United States in time of actual armed rebellion against the authority and government of the United States, and as a fit and necessary war measure for suppressing said rebellion, do, on this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty-three, and in accordance with my purpose so to do publicly proclaimed for the full period of one hundred days, from the day first above mentioned, order and designate as the States and parts of States wherein the people thereof respectively, are this day in rebellion against the United States, the following, to wit: Arkansas, Texas, Louisiana, (except the Parishes of St. Bernard, Plaquemines, Jefferson, St. John, St. Charles, St. James Ascension, Assumption, Terrebonne, Lafourche, St. Mary, St. Martin, and Orleans, including the City of New Orleans) Mississippi, Alabama, Florida, Georgia, South Carolina, North Carolina, and Virginia, (except the forty-eight counties designated as West Virginia, and also the counties of Berkley, Accomac, Northampton, Elizabeth City, York, Princess Ann, and Norfolk, including the cities of Norfolk and Portsmouth[)], and which excepted parts, are for the present, left precisely as if this proclamation were not issued.
And by virtue of the power, and for the purpose aforesaid, I do order and declare that all persons held as slaves within said designated States, and parts of States, are, and henceforward shall be free; and that the Executive government of the United States, including the military and naval authorities thereof, will recognize and maintain the freedom of said persons.
And I hereby enjoin upon the people so declared to be free to abstain from all violence, unless in necessary self-defence; and I recommend to them that, in all cases when allowed, they labor faithfully for reasonable wages.
And I further declare and make known, that such persons of suitable condition, will be received into the armed service of the United States to garrison forts, positions, stations, and other places, and to man vessels of all sorts in said service.
And upon this act, sincerely believed to be an act of justice, warranted by the Constitution, upon military necessity, I invoke the considerate judgment of mankind, and the gracious favor of Almighty God.
In witness whereof, I have hereunto set my hand and caused the seal of the United States to be affixed.
Done at the City of Washington, this first day of January, in the year of our Lord one thousand eight hundred and sixty three, and of the Independence of the United States of America the eighty-seventh.
By the President: ABRAHAM LINCOLN
WILLIAM H. SEWARD, Secretary of State.
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
Did the EP give a timeframe, say several months, for the seceded states to return to the Union and, thereby, be allowed to keep their slaves? I thought I read that somewhere.
clara
Miss Clara, the Preliminary Emancipation Proclamation, which Lincoln set out after Antietam, said the confederates had until the first of January to lay down their arms.
It was a war measure, designed to win the war. If not one way, then another.
My point was that he didn't know what he referred to. The entire post was pasted from a page at the Southern Messenger, a repository for kitchen scraps and deo vindice stuff.
Cedarstripper
Ah, i see now.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Battalion "But it was approved by a Northern dominated Congress right on the eve of the Civil War. A glaring inconsistency."
Not to those who actually understand history.
All you have to do is check the vote.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash
Battalion "You forgot Tennessee and parts of Louisiana and Virginia."
Wrong as usual. The areas that were under Union control at the time Lincoln drafted the EP were excepted.
That's what I wrote- 'Tennessee and parts of Louisiana and Virginia'
...-parts of the Confederacy under federal control.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash
People who don't understand this time period think "if people in rebellious states could prove their loyalty they could also keep their slaves."
I stated that with reservation- I believe...
...as in I believe I have seen a document that indicates such was the case.
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion 800,000 is a few?
Not that I really believe your number, but let's assume it's true. Compared to over 4 million, it's a few, relatively speaking.
Regards,
Cash
The 800,000 number is the number of slaves as of 1860 living in areas not covered by the EP.
800,000 is just a bit more than a few.
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