Secession

"We in the North couldn't make slavery pay, so we are convinced that it is the sum of all villainy. Our plan is more profitable, we take care of no children, or sick people, except as paupers, while the owners of slaves have to provide for them from birth to death. So how we view the issue depends on what kind of glasses we use.
If we of the North were called upon to endure one half as much as the Southern people and soldiers do, we would abandon the cause and let the Southern Confederacy be established. We pronounce their cause unholy, but they consider it sacred enough to suffer and die for. Our forefathers in the Revolutionary struggle could not have endured more than these Rebels.
A nation preserved with liberty trampled underfoot is much worse than a nation in fragments but with the spirit of liberty still alive. Southerners persistently claim that their rebellion is for the purpose of preserving this form of government." Private John H. Haley, 17th Maine Regiment USA.

Can anyone tell me anything about the legitimacy of this quote?

[unionblue]

Tommy,

Where did you find this quote? On a web site?

Tommy, never mind, found it on the Compatriot web site, and yes, I find it suspect, but not confirmed, as I have yet to check out the rest of the web. I'll check further and see if it is out there and can be confirmed.

Unionblue

(Message edited by Unionblue on September 02, 2004)

Neil,
Yes, I found it on some pro-South web site. The quote may very well be factual as well as truthful. But for some reason it feels suspicious to me. Not sure if it is the wording, the philosophy or the syntax that bothers me. My search turned up fruitless. But I am terribly hampered by a pc that crashes CONSTANTLY. (Like every time I do ANYTHING) Just wondered if anyone has any legitimate insight into this quote. Thanks for the help by the way. I’m off to sleep now. I have the epidural steroid injections in 7 hours. Grin

[unionblue]

Tommy,

Good luck with your injections. If it helps, just consider them small punctures of Union insight!

As for the quote itself, it is possible that it exists. I found out there were two John Haley's in the 17th Maine Infantry Regiment, one John E. Haley in Company E, and one John Haley (no middle initial given) in Company I. What I find a bit disturbing is, the quote you have found above lists a Pvt. John H. Haley as the one who wrote it, not either of the men I have been able to locate in the regimental records.

Now, it is not uncommon that names were listed wrong by regimental clerks during the war. In fact, when you look at the hand-writing of the day, a written W could very well be mistaken for a written H. I have found out that a John W. Haley of Company I, wrote a diary of his experiences during the war, which was later turned into a book. It was titled, The Rebel Yell & The Yankee Hurrah, The Civil War Journal Of A Maine Volunteer; Private John W. Haley, 17th Maine Regiment, and can still be purchased at Amazon.com and elsewhere on the inter net.

I also found the following web site about Pvt. John W. Haley.

http://www.geocities.com/SoHo/1422/haley.html

From what I have read of the site, there is a HUGE gap between the first part of the article and the last one. Anywhere in between, Pvt. Haley MIGHT have made the above quote you reference from a Southern-leaning partisan web site. I must admit, after viewing the rest of the web site in question, I too, would have hesitated in using the quote to support any of my views on this board.

But again, I cannot say with 100% certainty that the quote was NOT said by Pvt. John W. Haley of Company I, 17th Maine Infantry Regiment, but because the site lists his middle name wrong (Pvt. John H. Haley) and the tone of the entries I see on the web site I provide seem a bit out of tune with the quotes and writings listed there, I would say wait until you read the man's journal before saying it's his quote for sure.

One more thing. Pvt. John W. Haley is buried in Maine and lived from 1840 - 1921 and wrote two more books for sure.

Sincerely,
Unionblue

(Message edited by Unionblue on September 02, 2004)

(Message edited by Unionblue on September 02, 2004)

[bill_torrens]

Neil & Tommy,

I have a copy of The Rebel Yell & The Yankee Hurrah, The Civil War Journal Of A Maine Volunteer; Private John W. Haley, 17th Maine Regiment

I'm at work just now, but I'll check it out tonight. I certainly don't remember Haley expressing sentiments like those quoted on that website.

Bill

[unionblue]

Bill,

Thanks, I appreciate it. Please be advised I'm off the board for another 5 days it seems, but for nothing dramatic, just the Labor Day Holiday at my cabin in Southern Ohio. See you all Tuesday night of next week.

Unionblue

[bill_torrens]

Frank,

Thanks for your reply.

For peaceful secession, have a look at Norway’s secession from Sweden in the early 20th century.

To remark on what you said about building border posts and customs controls and such- Sure that could be done, but how can you really do that? That would have been a shame.

Oh, I don’t know. I think Confederate citizens could have adjusted quite happily. Being killed by Federal troops was what really struck them as a shame.

Can you trust Europe today? They have been so volatile throughout history it is disgusting.

Tell me about it. Look at the only person to be executed for war crimes at the end of the Civil War…he was Swiss. The parents of John Wilkes Booth were both English. The “Andersonville Raiders” were nearly all of British/Irish birth. The New York draft riots were caused by the Irish. Those Know-Nothings were really onto something.

In fact, every continent around the world that has multiple nation states living side by side has had many more bloody wars that we had here.

It’s all that cultural diversity that’s to blame. But imagine a world where every city was just like Des Moines. Whatever the continent, you’d never be more than 10 minute’s drive from a Burger King. Everyone would speak English, and everyone would be related to someone called Walt or Newt. You could knock down all those old buildings, all the Medieval stuff, and build some nice Condos. (Sigh). We can only dream.

Bill

"Can you trust Europe today? They have been so volatile throughout history it is disgusting."
What sovereign nations have had more wars, so-called police actions and violent military excursions in the last 220 years than we have? I know Switzerland and Sweden are just plumb not to be trusted. You just know they are up to something.

[eopfrank]

What have we done since the twentieth century that have not been for the good of others? Korea and Vietnam had no imperialist motives. rather, they were fought to combat communism. WWI and WWII were fought for good causes... the Bosnia action under clinton was for a good cause... the gulf war and today's war were and are both for good causes..

In regards to Europe- in the twentieth century- The worst two wars in the history of the world have been acts of aggression by Austria-Hungry, Germany and the ottoman Empire. The Soviets took over eastern europe after WWII until their recent collapse. Europe has come a long way in the past 50 years and it has a lot of promise, however, who knows when another despot will emerge... Let's hope not, of course, but it's possible.

-Frank

[georgiana]

The entire continent of Europe consists of a multitude of small countries living peacefully side by side.

I have an Uncle, PFC George R. Gibson, buried in Lorraine American Cemetery at Moselle. I also have great-Uncle, Private John D. Green, buried at Meuse-Argonne. Both of these men, together with the remaining 521,915 Americans that lost their lives during the first and second world wars – might challenge the notion of these countries “living peacefully side by side”.