Tariffs

[johan_steele]

Nov 64... as it doesn't own up to his earlier words. nuff said.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by ole

Davis's Rise and Fall is no more than the fluff that annoys. It is not history incarnate and is thoroughly negligible. Quoting his appologia doesn't fly. Could we leave that dead dog lie?

ole

Rather like the Reconstruction era Northern US government simply allowed the Treason charges against him to simply 'lie'?

I think, in your case, that would be extremely wise, and prudent to 'leave go' of his text.
(He is not about to give you, from what I have read, anything even resembling a conflict of text! I would certainly not wish to argue against Mr. Davis using his words as my proofs!)

In mine, however, I shall be calling upon his excellency, the president of the Confederacy, to explain the rationales for various and sundry as we go along.

I do hope you shall not be any more offended than you already seem to be at the mention of his writing...

I feel, however, that his words have a calmness and a
poignancy equalled, and in many places, excelled, only by his namesake, Mr. Thomas Jefferson.

As to an 'apologia', the only thing he was sorry for was that he was never tried in open court for Treason!

BEOWULF

[timewalker]

Interesting that the most Celtic of cultures, Ireland, supplied a disproportionate share of troops for the Northern cause.

Or that the Celtic culture is predominately Roman Catholic.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by timewalker

Interesting that the most Celtic of cultures, Ireland, supplied a disproportionate share of troops for the Northern cause.

Or that the Celtic culture is predominately Roman Catholic.

Well, there is the Presbyterian/Episcopalian change in the Southern Celts, and others, once one gets stateside! (Davis was an Episcopalian). NO IRISH NEED APPLY keeps presenting itself to me in Northern shoppe windows of the period...

And yes, to get passage across the Great Pond, I am sure that many were present in the Northern forces for that very reason...

(We had a slight problem with blockades at the time, if you will recall!)

Beowulf

[matthew mckeon]

Ole,
The quote you're thinking of is Howell Cobb's: "What if they(blacks)prove to be good soldiers? Then our whole theory of slavery is wrong." Another Southerner, commenting on proposals to create black soldiers said that if they are good soldiers then slavery is based on a "monsterous tissue of lies." Well no sh-t, Sherlock.

[unionblue]

Gentlemen,

Same suggestion here, how about we return this thread to questions and answers concerning the tariff, vice going off-track to black confederates and the like.

"In 1860, the tariff collected in Northern ports amounted to $48.3 million (92.4% of the total tariff collected), in Southern ports $4.0 million (7.6% of the total tariff collected). The tariff collected at the Port of New York alone constituted 66.7% of the total--$34.9 million. By comparison, the total value of all good imported through Charleston was only $2.0 million (and the net tariff collected there in 1858/59 was only $299,339.43)."

[Douglas B. Ball, Financial Failure and Confederate Defeat, p. 205, Table 18, "Trade Figures by Port in 1860" and "Customs Collections by Major Port (1860)."

A Golden Oldie,
Unionblue

[Battalion]

Originally Posted by unionblue

Gentlemen,

Same suggestion here, how about we return this thread to questions and answers concerning the tariff, vice going off-track to black confederates and the like.

"In 1860, the tariff collected in Northern ports amounted to $48.3 million (92.4% of the total tariff collected), in Southern ports $4.0 million (7.6% of the total tariff collected). The tariff collected at the Port of New York alone constituted 66.7% of the total--$34.9 million. By comparison, the total value of all good imported through Charleston was only $2.0 million (and the net tariff collected there in 1858/59 was only $299,339.43)."

[Douglas B. Ball, Financial Failure and Confederate Defeat, p. 205, Table 18, "Trade Figures by Port in 1860" and "Customs Collections by Major Port (1860)."

A Golden Oldie,
Unionblue

Probably 95% of the imports I have purchased during my lifetime have entered the country through Los Angeles or New York.

I have never lived in or visited either place.

[Beowulf]

Originally Posted by matthew mckeon

Ole,
The quote you're thinking of is Howell Cobb's: "What if they(blacks)prove to be good soldiers? Then our whole theory of slavery is wrong." Another Southerner, commenting on proposals to create black soldiers said that if they are good soldiers then slavery is based on a "monsterous tissue of lies." Well no sh-t, Sherlock.

You guys are leaving out the main belief in the South that
saw Slavery as the means to Anglicize, Christianize, and Civilize the black savages from Africa into productive members of society... (who could eventually be given their freedom, once they learned to govern their own affairs).

Of course, the Money-grubbing Southern Liberal (UNIONIST, for Slavery's sake, and Collectivism, alone) Cotton Whigs did not go for this! Stephens, their literal poster child, was forever embarrassing Jefferson Davis with his racist effluvium.

Jefferson Davis was one of the strongest proponents of this model, seeing the white race as being able to provide this to these (originally) savages (in their inferior state) and raise them up to meet the standards of the (now Southern) white race (so they could now move freely amongst them, in peace and order), who had formed (this particular form of) civilization...

civilization |ˌsivələˈzā sh ən|
noun
the stage of human social development and organization that is considered most advanced : they equated the railroad with progress and civilization.
• the process by which a society or place reaches this stage.
• the society, culture, and way of life of a particular area : the great books of Western civilization | the early civilizations of Mesopotamia and Egypt.
• the comfort and convenience of modern life, regarded as available only in towns and cities : the fur traders moved further and further from civilization.

... for white (from the colonial founding fathers) men out of all the tribalism of the earth. (From the Red, Yellow, Yellow-Black, and Black races of the earth). Curiously, if you mix red, yellow, black, and white on a palette, in equal parts, you get Caucasian beige. The color of combination, and inter-tribalism, or 'permanent' inter-tribalism. Any portrait artist knows this mix!)

(This "civilization" was necessary in the uncharted wilds of North America. There was no inter-tribal culture here until the English. The French had not settled it, neither had the Spanish, Canada and Florida, notwithstanding!).

The division between the top two white races, Anglo-Saxons and Celts, was to decide HOW civilization should be
conducted (Celts favoring Clans and non-conquering white tribalism ( a confederacy of loosely-organized states), and
Anglo-Saxons favoring outright non-divine right (Secular Humanist) empire... Celts favoring Isolationism and
Anglo-Saxons favoring Conquest (even if only to spread their brand of 'democracy', especially replacing representative republican rule with majority-ruled democracy).,, Celts favoring leisure and enjoyment and Anglo-Saxons favoring fierce industry...
Thus, then, the patterns emerge.

And this is no longer blood, but cultural Anglo-Saxony and
rural Celtic-nicity. All races and even women were soldiers in the Civil War, on both sides. So, this EURO-ENGLISH fight, which had originally been between two white races in Britain, was now between the multi-cultural mix which was North America...

But it was these two sides, back at it again! UNION for the Anglo-Saxons (UNION JACK for the Brits!) means CONQUEST. INDEPENDENCE for the CELTS means FREEDOM (WHAT WILL YOU DO WITHOUT... FREEDOM?! - BRAVEHEART).

That is why the rest of the world calls us YANQUIS. They are referring to our 'victorious' Anglo-Saxon side, which the South went to great pains to reject. It is a term that does not apply, in the original sense, at all, anymore... We have evolved since 1865.

Since the Civil war, the United States has become one of the great champions of independence for confederacies, the world over. We have put down totalitarian regimes
in every major theatre of the world, and have become a symbol for that which represents freedom from tyranny, such as Saddam's empire, or Adolph Hitler's.

Of course, the Southerners are, willingly, very much a part of this... even those who hold to their Confederate heritage! It is what they have always represented!

Deo Vindice!

Beowulf

[5fish]

Beowulfie,


Please get your English and American histroy correct. I beleive it is not much to ask for. Just a little truth!

[ole]

You guys are leaving out the main belief in the South that saw Slavery as the means to Anglicize, Christianize, and Civilize the black savages from Africa into productive members of society... (who could eventually be given their freedom, once they learned to govern their own affairs).

I have more respect for the slave-driver who found it cheaper to buy than to breed. That is a rationale invented to justify the guilt many felt for keeping a race in bondage. It goes right up there with, "they are brutes and incapable of taking care of themselves." Another was, "they are better off here." Or, "it's in the Book." Nowdays, we just usually say that, "back then it was legal."

When it began to dawn on the post-revolutionary American that slavery wasn't exactly in keeping with ideals of the founders, many took steps to eliminate it. Many others simply invented reasons for why it was a good thing.

Thought you were hitting the road and wouldn't have time to look up that percentage question unionblue asked? Another ploy?

ole