Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
We have here the conclusive fact that the three-fourths of the whole foreign trade of the country is Southern. The exports are produced there, and the goods they get payment for come to them through New York, to the great profit of its merchants...."
"...The fact must continually be borne in mind that the Middle and New England States can, of themselves, have little or no trade with England and Western Europe, because they are producers of the same articles. New England competes with Old England in the purchase of raw materials and food, and the sales of manufactured articles. There are no trading interests between them. They both want Western food, and both want Southern materials. Of the importations that are brought in into New York, a large portion goes to the South, which raised the produce with which they were purchased through New York commercial houses.
In this connection, we call attention to the following, from the London Economist, in relation to the British trade for the first three months of this year:
"Our commerce with the South and with the North is now for the first time divided in the official tables. It appears that all our direct exports are to the North. The figures are:
Exports to Northern States.........£3,922,133
Exports to Southern States.............174,563
Showing a startling contrast in the amount we actually sell to the two belligerents. The contrast is nearly as remarkable in what we buy, only it is reversed!
Imports into Great Britain from Northern ports........£4,697,868
Imports into Great Britain from Southern ports.........6,136,186..."
What manufactured items does the North need to import?
The amount produced appears to be very sufficient.
Not much of the total was exported...
so did each Northerner consume $77 of goods ($1,730,330,395/22,341,747)
to each Southerner consuming $17 of goods? ($155,531,281/9,103,333)
Not likely.
The South either imports...or buys Northern goods at protectionist rates.
One way or the other...
...the South got the shaft.
We have here the conclusive fact that the three-fourths of the whole foreign trade of the country is Southern.
Not the way I see it. Adding total imports and total exports, about 44.1% of the whole foreign trade of the country is southern.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
The exports are produced there, and the goods they get payment for come to them through New York, to the great profit of its merchants...."
Huge assumption there that has no evidence to back it up. This assumes that the goods are loaded up in the south, shipped to Europe, paid for in Europe with other goods, and the payments brought to New York, where the tariff was paid, and then shipped south to the folks who produced the cotton. Well, I don't know how much French perfume a bale of cotton is worth, but how much French perfume were southern women consuming? I mean, were they drinking it with their meals or what? [/sarcasm]
Mr. Green is engaging in quite a bit of sophistry, I'm afraid. The simple fact is that the tariff is paid on imports by the person importing the dutiable goods. The cost of the tariff is added to the price of the goods when they are sold. There is no evidence at all that the 29% of the total US population which lived in the south was buying anything more than their per capita share of foreign goods, and if we factor in that almost 39% of their population were slaves, there is very good reason to believe the actual consumption of foreign goods was well less than their per capita share.
Originally Posted by Battalion
"..........Total Imports...Total Exports...Excess Imports...Excess Exports
North...$316,812,381....$77,367,070.....$239,449,3 11...........--
South......36,802,738....238,419,670............--.............201,616,932
We have here the conclusive fact that the three-fourths of the whole foreign trade of the country is Southern."
Quote:
Originally Posted by cash
Not the way I see it. Adding total imports and total exports, about 44.1% of the whole foreign trade of the country is southern.
Huge assumption.
How is the South getting only $36.8 million in return for $192 million in cotton? (produced exclusively in the South and representing 57% of all exports)
Huge assumption.
How is the South getting only $36.8 million in return for $192 million in cotton? (produced exclusively in the South and representing 57% of all exports)
I belived that the "Huge Assumption" is on your part.
You seem to imply that Everyone in the South only purchased Imported goods, which is very far from the truth. The South purchased equipment, and food (yes, large amount of food) from the North, furniture, even mundane items like wooden buckets, as there was no factories for them in the south. Many of the larger, and middling, slave owners spent their vacations in the North at various spa's, Trips to the larger Northern cities. All this cost money. Much might have been paid for with 'cotton money' but nevertheless, it was still purchased from Northern factories and farms.
Just a few thoughts,
Chuck in IL.
This argument about Tariffs is a waste of time. the tariff issue was simply a red herring to distract from the true issue of the war which we all know was s.....y.
Anyone want to fill in the blanks/
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This argument about Tariffs is a waste of time. the tariff issue was simply a red herring to distract from the true issue of the war which we all know was s.....y.
Anyone want to fill in the blanks/
Perhaps to rectify the nation's shortage of statuary?
__________________ "It has been my experience that folks who have no vices have very few virtues." - Abraham Lincoln
How is the South getting only $36.8 million in return for $192 million in cotton? (produced exclusively in the South and representing 57% of all exports)
The south, comprising only 29% of the population, doesn't consume 57% of the dutiable goods imported. Since almost 39% of the southern population were slaves, then it is highly doubtful they consumed 29% of the dutiable goods imported.
According to Charles Adams, “When In the Course of Human Events”, page 26-27, “The high tariff in the North compelled the Southern states to pay tribute to the North, either in taxes to fatten Republican coffers or in the inflated prices that had to be paid for Northern goods. Besides being unfair, this violated the uniformity command of the Constitution by having the South pay an undue proportion of the national revenue, which was expended more in the North than in the South: when some of the compromise tariffs of the 1830’s and 1840’s are analyzed, the total revenue was around $107.5 million, with the South paying about $90 million and the North $17.5 million. These are round numbers but they also coincide with export numbers. In 1860, total exports from the South totaled $214 million, and from the North around $47 million. In both instances the percentage for the South (taxes and exports) was 87 percent, and 17 percent for the North. To add further salt to the wounds of the South on matters of revenue, fishing bounties for New Englanders were approximately $13 million, paid from the national Treasury, hence 83 percent from the South. And with a monopoly on shipping from Southern ports, the South paid Northern shipping -$36 million. (14) So the numbers show that the South’s claim to be, in effect, paying tribute to the North has a factual basis.
It seems obvious that Lincoln’s concern over secession, “What then will become of my tariff?”, (15) was a serious matter.
14. Jabez L.M. Curry, “The Perils and Duty of the South, November 26, 1860", http://members.aol.com/jfepperson/curry.htm in Southern Pamphlets on Secession, 35-54; compare with an unsubstantiated Northern view that the South “contributed so little to the national treasury,” in Joseph Rapes, “Financial Aspects of the Rebellion,” New Englander 22 (January 1863): 56ff http://memory.loc.gov/ammem/ndlpcoop...ng_V22I82.html
15. Robert L. Dabny, “Memoir of a Narrative Received of Colonel John B. Baldwin,” in Secular (1897; reprint, Harrisburg, Va.: Sprinkle, 1994), 94,100
__________________ "Forgive your enemies, but never forget their names".--J.F.K.
The War Between the States established... This principle that the Federal Government is, through its courts, this final judge of its own powers.
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