Mr. Lincoln 1847 & 1861

Rick, you said,
The discussion over whether secession was Legal under the Constitution properly belongs in a separate forum from this particular one and I would be happy to discuss it in detail but I don't think it belongs under this particular post. I was just pointing out that Lincoln saw it as ILLEGAL under the Constitution which he was sworn to uphold, whether he saw it as morally right or not. If he is sworn to uphold the Constitution and he believes actions taken by the southern state abrogate the Constitution then he has only two choices; take action or abandon his oath. This is the point he was trying to make in his inaugural address. Whether he sympathised with the seceeding states, thought they were morally Right, Wrong, or were in some gray area between the two; he was sworn to uphold the Constitution as he understood it.

And I completely, totally and positively concur with this statement. He felt obligated...

So, where can we go to discuss the "legality" of secession? Mike, can you start us a new board? The discussion of why the war came?
That could be both fun and entertaining.
Best,
oldreb

[unionblue]

Ron, I'm afraid I have to weigh in on this one too. How is it possible to confuse Lincoln's statements of 1847 concerning the Mexican War with the entirely different scenario of 1861?

Lincoln is just restating the idea that REVOLUTION (Not secession!) is a right of the people. The fact of the matter is when you revolt 'you put your money down and you take your chances' on being able to win or not.

Again I see that you have this idea that the Constitution has some kind of mysterious escape clause that "permits" seceding Southern States to 'peaceably' leave the Union. A kind of 'Get Out of The Union Free Card'. By virtue of other threads here on this post it is pretty much obvious to me that this was just a grand illusion on the part of Southern fire-eaters who wanted to justify an illegal act.

Bottom line, Lincoln didn't contradict himself in 1847 or 1861. Two entirely different situations, two entirely different solutions.

Well, I had a great post written, hit the wrong da*n key on this new keyboard and it WENT AWAY.

Gotta get my thoughts back in order and try again.

regards
Old Reb