Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Lincoln had a plan to bring the southern states back into the Union that was quite different from the actual event.
In the Federal Congress, there were many politicos, including Seward who felt the South must pay for their "sins and transgressions".
In the south, reconstruction left more bitter scars than did the war.
What is your opinion on reconstruction? Do you agree with my statement above? Was reconstruction fair? Was Seward right or wrong, should the south have been made to pay for its "wrongs" against the Union?
And don't hold back. I am really interested in your thoughts, comments, references, etc. And 'I PROMISE not to respond to any statements made that are not in agreement with my feelings, this time anyway.
Ron, debating is essential.. I believe that reconstruction was more harsh than it could and should have been. I have said it one time on this site before and it is interesting... That that difference between Lincoln's reconstruction plans and the radical republicans' may have been a motive to Assasinate Lincoln. There is always a conspiracy theory with everything I know and this one is not a new one, but I can see how it could be possible. Do you think that if Lincoln Lived reconstruction would have been much better for the south?
Frank, you asked, "...if Lincoln lived reconstruction would have been much better for the south?"
actually, probably not. Lincoln would still have had to deal with Seward, Congress, his cabinet, etc. I feel it would have taken a much stronger president that Lincoln (not saying he was weak, he held the remnants of a country together through four bitter, sorrowful years of war) to have enforced his ideas of reconstruction.
Ron, reconstruction under Lincoln would have been much better for the South and the country as a whole. As for the idea that Lincoln would not have been strong enough, I really have to lean against the idea that he could not have handled Seward, Stanton, Congress and the lot. After all, when he was first elected, didn't Seward have the idea of co-opting Lincoln and being the real power behind the throne? Lincoln handled that pretty well, don't you think? And Stanton, who had no respect for Lincoln before the war, was pretty much brought to heel whenever Lincoln wanted his own way with the War Department.
To the point, I think four years under Lincoln, the South would have greatly benefited and ex-slaves might have gotten a better shake if the Freedman's Bureau had been permitted to fully assist blacks in adjusting after the war.
As it was, the entire nation got screwed by having the hard-line radical Republicans run Reconstruction. Just my opinion, old reb.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Just a couple more thoughts. First, Lincoln's plan for bringing the states back into the Union changed considerably during and after the war. Lincoln himself was fond of saying that he didn't control events, rather events controlled him. This made for extremely liquid plans on Lincoln's part that were infinitely open to modification as the need arose. This type of planning was typical of Lincoln's handling of events during his Presidency and was in large part responsible for his ultimate success in achieving victory. He came to decisions slowly and cautiously and with input from anyone who cared to contribute and seldom fastened upon any plan that was not adaptable to circumstances.
Keeping this in mind, what we know of Lincoln's plan(s) for reconstruction were largely formed as a part of his overall effort to preserve the Union by winning the war. In other words, the plans that had been offered by Lincoln were part of the war effort. He was first and foremost during the war interested in policies that tended to strengthen the union and weaken the Confederacy of southern states. He saw the plans offered as policies furthering these ends. The quicker and easier he made it for the southern states to resume their rights as States, the more pressure he put on those determined to resist. At the time of his assassination he was deeply involved in formulating the policy by which the southern states were to be readmitted but it was by no means settled in his mind as is evident by the discussions on the subject in the last few cabinet meetings.
It is obvious from statements that Lincoln made immediately after peace was made that he favored a policy of reconciliation rather than punishment. However, it must be remembered that Lincoln was not in control of Congress and had on several occasions found himself in conflict with the more radical elements of the Republican party. Johnson attempted to carry Lincoln's policy forward as he understood it and we all know how far he got with it. Johnson was not a man for compromise and from all accounts was combattive by nature so this probably led to the acrimonious split with the party that followed, but there is little doubt that Lincoln would have had his hands full opposing those who wanted to punish the south as well. However, I can't help but think that a man who had successfully carried out such a massive war effort with these same diverse groups pulling in different directions would have been eminently more successful than Johnson was.
There were basically 2 groups within the Republican party that were responsible for the troubles that followed in the south. The first group was interested in supporting the Freedmen in the south and seeing that they recieved the vote and the rights that would enable them to become productive citizens. The second group wanted to protect the overwhelming Republican majority in Congress and assure that the same politicians in the south that had provoked the war by seceding did not regain political control of the south after the war. The planter class of the south had virtually controlled politics in the south before the war. Many Republicans were horrified when it became obvious that many of these same men were still the voice of authority in the south and they feared that the war would happen all over again were these men to regain control.
Johnson's support of governments that seemed to countenance these views served to unite both these divergent Republican groups against his plan. If he had truly insisted on either suffrage and equal rights for the freedmen or rejection of the voting rights for ex-Confederate leaders Johnson could have effectively split up the power base of Congress and probably would have never had control of Reconstruction wrested away from him. As it was, he managed to push for governments that both groups found appalling and suceeded in uniting them.
In my own opinion, Lincoln would have been shrewd enough to recognize these differences and keep such overwhelming opposition from ever uniting. In this way, more than likely he could have pushed his own program through. As things turned out, there was in inevitable backlash against such a concentration of power as was seen during Reconstruction and NEITHER group managed to realize their goals.
Mike, one book you might consider reading on reconstruction is THE FRUITS OF VICTORY: Alternatives in Restoring the Union, 1865-1877 by Michael Les Benedict. Although my copy was Copyright in 1975, the book may still be available at your library. Very good articles on the subject.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
To Old Reb and Bill. I might be able to give you some information that may help my arguments on why no Rebel leader was nailed as a traitor and give some more on reconstruction.
From the book, The Fruits of Victory, page 5, Lincoln's thoughts on reconstruction, some of which may be of particular interest to Ron.
On at least two occasions in early 1865, before all the Confederate commanders had surrendered, Lincoln came close to offering white southerners the kind of control they wanted over their affairs in exchange for peace. Early in February, Lincoln and Secretary of State Seward met with Confederate Vice-President Stephens and others, to discuss possible peace terms. Insisting that peace depended on the Confederacy's complete military surrender and the restoration of United States authority throughout the South, Lincoln and Seward agreed that the end of hostilities would restore all of the rights that the Constitution guaranteed to states. It seems clear (to the author of this book, at least) that Lincoln was promising to recognize the restoration to the Union of those very state governments that had tried to leave it, and allow them the traditional right of states to regulate nearly all facets of society. He and Seward even hinted that the Emancipation Proclamation, being a war measure only, might be construed to free only those two hundred thousand slaves living in rebel areas conquered by national troops before a peace agreement was reached. But Jefferson Davis's government was not yet ready to give up all hope of independence, and most Confederates knew better than to think slavery would long survive reunion.
A bit later in this chapter, the author goes on to say the following;
The proposals for a restoration of the Union that would consciously leave state power in the hands of ex-rebels culminated in the confusing days after Lincoln's assassination and Vic-President Andrew Johnson's elevation to the presidency. In North Carolina, Gen. Sherman negotiated the surrender of the last major rebel army in the southeast, commanded by Gen. Joseph Johnston. Gen. Sherman had spent some of the happiest years of his life in Florida and in Charleston, South Carolina, and hoped for minimal change in the southern way of life as a result of the war.
AWARE THAT LINCOLN HAD FAVORED LENIENT TERMS OF RECONSTRUCTION, Sherman tried to commit the government to a southern-style restoration. He signed an armistice agreement with Johnston which, in return for the disbandment of southern armies, promised presidential recognition for the Confederate state governments wherever no loyal state governments existed. In states where both loyal and rebel governments claimed authority, the Supreme Court of the United States would decide which was legitimate. The Sherman-Johnston agreement provided amnesty for all rebels "so long as they live in peace and quiet, and abstain from acts of armed hostility": guaranteed their right to vote and hold office; and even drew into question the finality of emancipation, protecting southerners in "their rights of person and property, as defined by the Constitution of the United States, and of the States respectively." (The amendment to the Constitution freeing the slaves had not yet been ratified, and, of course, the constitutions of the southern states recognized the legality of slavery.)
However, it was not to be. Lincoln had decided against such a course just before he died and his cabinet unanimously and firmly opposed such a course. Even General Sherman's brother, Senator John Sherman of Ohio, wrote him gently, "I think the judgment of unprejudiced men has settled upon the conviction that your terms were too liberal. The recognition of the rebel state organizations, now completely in the hands of the worst men of the South, will not answer."
When Vice-President Johnson turned to Lincoln's cabinet advisers to learn what Reconstruction plan they had been formulating before the assassination, he learned from Secretary of War Stanton had proposed an occupation scheme. He had suggested appointing provisional governors in the South to maintain order through martial law enforced by the army. At the same time the national government would reestablish its revenue offices, post offices, federal courts, and land offices. Lincoln had liked the idea and told Stanton to redraft the plan with minor changes.
On the day of Lincoln's death, Stanton, House Speaker Schuyler Colfax, Senator Charles Sumner, and a few other congressmen pored over the proposal. What was missing was a method for restoring some kind of local self-government; EVERYONE AGREED THAT MILITARY OCCUPATION COULDN'T LAST FOREVER. So with his friends' help, Stanton modified the duties of the military governors to include organizing elections for constitutional conventions which would alter the state constitutions to conform to the new situation. Once the constitutions were changed, southerners could elect new state officers under them. Then he and his visitors argued over who should be allowed to elect the delegates to the constitutional conventions. After long hours of wrangling, Stanton agreed to propose that all loyal men, WHITE AND BLACK, be allowed to participate.
And here is where President Johnson steps in and things get real messy!
Let me know what you think.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
"I think the judgment of unprejudiced men has settled upon the conviction that your terms were too liberal. The recognition of the rebel state organizations, now completely in the hands of the worst men of the South, will not answer."
Unprejudiced men? That is preposterous. If there was an unprejudiced man it would have been Billy Sherman. He had fought the Southern soldier for four years, had tested his mettle, had seen his steel.
It was the da*n republican party in Washington that WAS prejudiced and with Stanton and Chase leading the herd wanted to press the south and make it suffer.
"Abandoning his plans to retire, Stanton was in control of the government. The Army was under his control, the new President Andrew Johnson was unsure of himself and Congress was not in session."
on Chase: "an advocate of black suffrage and Radical Reconstruction measures"
A Report from the Joint Congressional Committee on Reconstruction, in June 1866 came to this conclusion regarding the admission of the states that had removed themselves from the Union.
"With such evidence before them, it is the opinion of your committed
That the States lately in rebellion were, at the close of the war, disorganized communities, without civil government, and without constitutions or other forms, by virtue of which political relations could legally exist between them and the federal government.
That Congress cannot be expected to recognize as valid the election of representatives from disorganized communities, which, from the very nature of the case, were unable to present their claim to representation under those established and recognized rules, the observance of which has been hitherto required.
That Congress would not be justified in admitting such communities to a participation in the government of the country without first providing such constitutional or other guarantees as will tend to secure the civil rights of all citizens of the republic; a just equality of representation; protection against claims founded in rebellion and crime; a temporary restoration of the right of suffrage to those who had not actively participated in the efforts to destroy the Union and overthrow the government, and the exclusion from positions of public trust of, at least, a portion of those whose crimes have proved them to be enemies to the Union, and unworthy of public confidence."
Disorganized communities? Each state that had seceded retained their state constitution. Each had elected state officials (The Governor of Mississippi, Bejamin Grubbs Humphreys [also recently a Brigadier General in the Confederate Army under whom the brave men of the 17th Mississippi followed from Gettysburg to Sayler's Creek] was removed at bayonet point from the Governor's Mansion in Jackson). This is a disorganized community? If there was disorganization it was the result of the puppet governments placed over the states by the radical republican party, consisting of carpetbaggers, freed slaves and just all around thieves and neer-do-wells.
Sorry, guys, didn't have any sleep last night and this is pretty disorganized in itself. I wil try again later.
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