Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
No, I mean the idea that a legally elected President being given no chance whatsoever to show in what way he was going to 'overthrow the Constitution' as you state, but instead, attempt an illegal rebellion by force of arms.
Propose what you will Hal, but that is what I meant.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
"The cause of America is in a great measure the cause of all
mankind." --Thomas Paine
Therein lies the rub.
"The cause" as Lee and Davis saw it was quite different from "the cause" as Lincoln and Grant saw it. The former saw "the cause" as the principles of the Declaration and the rights the government was created to protect -- the latter saw "the cause" as defending the government itself.
-He that would make his own liberty secure must guard even his enemy from oppresion.
-Those who expect to reap the blessings of freedom must, like men, undergo the fatigue of supporting it.
Thomas Paine
Davis and LIncoln both took similar oathes. One honored his to defend his country... the other broke it by attacking it.
The cause as Lee saw it was quite different than Davis's power grab. Lee was more respected and frankly a more honorable man.
The time for compromise has now passed, and the South is determined to maintain her position, and make all who oppose her smell Southern powder and feel Southern steel"
Jeff Davis, February 16, 1861 doesn't sound to me like he was willing to compromise sounds to me like he was looking for a fight.
__________________ Shane Christen
American Legion Post 352
SUVCW Camp Abernethy# 48
Lifetime NRA member
3rd MN VI
For in much wisdom is much grief: and he that increaseth knowledge increaseth sorrow. Eccl 1:18
Last edited by johan_steele; 05-26-2005 at 07:49 AM.
Reason: addition
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Davis and LIncoln both took similar oathes. One honored his to defend his country... the other broke it by attacking it.
Lincoln took an oath to defend the Constitution -- not his "country." Unfortunately, he placed personal prestige, land and party politics over that oath. He honored his oath by putting a knife at his wife's throat and said I won't let you leave me.
Lincoln took an oath to defend the Constitution. Good point. Big difference.
As to Davis, he had been given a word of honor from Lincoln that the fort would not be resupplied with troops etc. He conivingly lied through his teeth, broke his given word deliberately and knowingly brought about bloodshed because with his manufactured lie he knew full well the South would have only one choice. In fact, he planned on it.
YMOS tommy
Last edited by aphillbilly; 05-26-2005 at 07:11 PM.
Reason: Typos of course
Yes it is.
You are incorrect and posting an untruth yourself with your denial. If you have proof otherwise, please present it. You merely saying 'This is not at all true." doesn't cut it. Sorry.
I have given this many times before........but here is part of it again. BTW, Hal did a wonderful source document timeline thingee leading up to the firing on Sumter. You might try looking for it. It is really good. I have no idea which thread it was on or how long ago. Maybe months, maybe years.
Robert Chew, aide to Secretary of State Seward, stated In a message to Governor Pickens of South Carolina, "I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you that an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or ammunition will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the fort."
Also,
Major Anderson, in a letter to Colonel Thomas, Adjutant-General, United States Army: "I had the honor to receive, by yesterday's mail, the letter of the Honorable Secretary of War, dated April 4th, and confess that what he there states surprises me greatly - following, as it does, and contradicting so positively, the assurance Mr. Crawford telegraphed he was "authorized" to make. I trust that this matter will be at once put in a correct light, as a movement made now, when the South has been erroneously informed that none such would be attempted, would produce most disastrous results throughout the country......I ought to have been informed that this expedition was to come. Colonel Lamon's remark convinced me that the idea, merely hinted at to me by Captain Fox, would not be carried out. ...
We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in this war, which I see is to be thus commenced." (April 8, 1861)
Anderson wrote the letter on the same day South Carolina's governor was informed about the coming of the mission, the day after Anderson himself learned of the mission.
Then of course you have Palpatine's letter...ooooops sorry, I meant Lincoln's letter to Fox where they are patting each other on the back over it all.
Hope that helps.
Now I'd like to see some sources cited where proves it was not true.
I have given this many times before........but here is part of it again. BTW, Hal did a wonderful source document timeline thingee leading up to the firing on Sumter. You might try looking for it. It is really good. I have no idea which thread it was on or how long ago. Maybe months, maybe years.
Robert Chew, aide to Secretary of State Seward, stated In a message to Governor Pickens of South Carolina, "I am directed by the President of the United States to notify you that an attempt will be made to supply Fort Sumter with provisions only; and that, if such attempt be not resisted, no effort to throw in men, arms, or ammunition will be made, without further notice, or in case of an attack upon the fort."
Also,
Major Anderson, in a letter to Colonel Thomas, Adjutant-General, United States Army: "I had the honor to receive, by yesterday's mail, the letter of the Honorable Secretary of War, dated April 4th, and confess that what he there states surprises me greatly - following, as it does, and contradicting so positively, the assurance Mr. Crawford telegraphed he was "authorized" to make. I trust that this matter will be at once put in a correct light, as a movement made now, when the South has been erroneously informed that none such would be attempted, would produce most disastrous results throughout the country......I ought to have been informed that this expedition was to come. Colonel Lamon's remark convinced me that the idea, merely hinted at to me by Captain Fox, would not be carried out. ...
We shall strive to do our duty, though I frankly say that my heart is not in this war, which I see is to be thus commenced." (April 8, 1861)
Anderson wrote the letter on the same day South Carolina's governor was informed about the coming of the mission, the day after Anderson himself learned of the mission.
Then of course you have Palpatine's letter...ooooops sorry, I meant Lincoln's letter to Fox where they are patting each other on the back over it all.
Hope that helps.
Now I'd like to see some sources cited where proves it was not true.
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And that directly contradicts your statement.
Lincoln never gave his word of honor that Fort Sumter would not be resupplied with food.
Lincoln never gave his word of honor that Fort Sumter would not be resupplied with troops or anything else if the confederates contested the landing of the food or without further notice.
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