Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Ten CS Generals served in the expedition into Utah to bolster the authority of the US an make certain Utah didn't attemt to secede. After a little looking I was suprised to find the there was no dissent in sending troops into Utah by those who would champion secession only a few years later...
Is this more ammunition for the inconsistencies of the CS or just a coincidence? What was the difference between Utah and SC? Other than the obvious fact of a lack of slavery in Utah and religious issues.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I have to admit, this one came out of left field for me. Got any more information on the subject, like the cause of the conflict and the names of the generals involved?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Will throw in a speculation. Generals, CS or US didn't much play politics. They went were they were sent and did what they were told to do. At the time, they were on a mission for the US Army and wouldn't quarrel with their mission.
It was pretty quiet from the states' rights folks 'tho, wasn't it.
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
About a third of the prewar US Army was committed at Camp Floyd. There's nothing left out there now but the old commissary building. But yes, a lot of fellows who later fought in the Civil War were at Camp Floyd, including Reynolds and Buford.
Thanks for all the great links, especially the last one! I loved the quote by the New York Herald, "Killed, none, wounded, none; fooled, everybody."
Shane, I think I kind of hold the view of Ole on this one. Looks like the situation was a tad different than the Civil War as Utah was a territory with what was considered an 'alien' society and religion more than a political or slavery issue. It does seem that Buchanan was trying to fend off Republican bad press by talking big, but really didn't want trouble with anyone.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
R E Lee, A S Johnston, Pemberton, Pegram, Mclaws, Hardee, Garnett, Forney, Deshler & Bee all served in the Mormon War. Very very quiet from the States Rights fellas. So silent in fact I can find no opposition to sending in troops to quell a possible "Rebellion" in fact the only thing I can find either way is for it. Anyone wish to guess who was Secretery of War?
What suprised me was that those I could find info on seemed enthusiastic about the idea of forcing Utah to stay in the Union and even going so far as to make hay out of what appeared to be nothing... almost like practice. What would the SC stance have been if Utah wished to enter as a slave state? Would they have reacted differently.
Whihle I was on vacation I had been parusing some of the old Congressional Record and caught just a hint of the situation. It was one of those readings that kind of fester and i didn't realy think about it until later. When I got home... My ever convenient (though not always accurate) <u>Civil War book of lists</u> had a list of CW Generals who served in the Mormon War.
I thought it would be interesting to spark some thought on the subject. It certainly set a precedence for the Union.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I was looking over the messages again and saw the statement about "Obvious issues of lack of slavery in Utah." Slavery was legal, and practiced, in the territory until 1862. The Utah War wasn't about freeing slaves.
I don't think Brigham Young would have allowed Utah to enter the Union as a slave state. He didn't want that much contention. As it was, Utah didn't enter the Union until 1896 and the sticking point there was polygamy.
Zou (whose seven years in the land of Zion still weigh heavy...)
Utah could possibly seceded had there not been many other issues the Feds felt were not to be brooked. One was the mail. The Mormons had started interfering with the mail in a very, very big way. Reading it to see what all they could find out, destroying it etc. No mail was safe going through the state much less in it, or out of it. The Postal Contract was really a key issue here. Young lost the contract and that got the ball rolling.
Another reason was the Mormon dealings with the Indians. The Mountain Meadows Massacre was an event the US could not overlook. AS Johnson left for Utah right after that. This has absolutely no correlation to the secession of the Southern States.
Zou, thanks for the links... no I'm not getting tired of them. Like I said this was something that got me thinking and I'm trying to learn more about it.
I personally belive that Young would have liked nothing better than a free and independent Utah. At the same time he appears to have been a realist and knew the chances of that happening were slim.
I thought that slavery was legal in Utah as it was a territory and as in any territory slavery was legal prior to the CW. It wouldn't suprise me if I was wrong as the laws prior to the War in the territories is new to me.
Aphillbilly, I was unaware of the tampering w/ the mail issue... could you point me toward a source that would give more info?
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
