Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
And what of expanding the West to exclude blacks because of racial purity? The 'destiny' of Northern capitalists did not include living with freed slaves. Go west young man...but only if you're the right colour, religion, and nationality.
And what of expanding the West to exclude blacks because of racial purity? The 'destiny' of Northern capitalists did not include living with freed slaves. Go west young man...but only if you're the right colour, religion, and nationality.
I understand that this was not the reason for expansion, but that this was largely due to the fact that people of the United States had convinced themselves that it was their Manifest Destiny, and God-given right, to take/steal land from within the bounds of sea to shining sea. These lofty ideals were exclusive and firmly entrenched - only white, blond-haired, blue-eyed and theological racists need apply.
I understand that this was not the reason for expansion, but that this was largely due to the fact that people of the United States had convinced themselves that it was their Manifest Destiny, and God-given right, to take/steal land from within the bounds of sea to shining sea. These lofty ideals were exclusive and firmly entrenched - only white, blond-haired, blue-eyed and theological racists need apply.
Dawna
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Except that the reason for the expansion was to expand slavery.
Are you saying that the reason for manifest destiny was simply to expand slavery westward? I always thought it was a general thirst for territory and resources, slavery or not. What did slavery, per se, have to do with it?
Are you saying that the reason for manifest destiny was simply to expand slavery westward? I always thought it was a general thirst for territory and resources, slavery or not. What did slavery, per se, have to do with it?
Slavery had almost everything to do with it. Expansion of slavery was behind the land grabs of getting Texas and the war with Mexico. Expansion of slavery was behind the filibusters of the 1840s attempting to take over parts of Mexico, Central and South America, and Cuba. Expansion of slavery was behind getting California.
Are you suggesting that the Northern capitalists at the time of the Civil War did not want slavery expanded westward because of 'moral' reasons?
Dawna
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Dawna,
The record is clear that while there were a few who wanted to keep blacks out of the territories, the vast majority opposed slavery and agreed with Lincoln that slavery was a snake in the bed, and the best way to protect the child was to not allow the snake in the bed in the first place.
I understand that this was not the reason for expansion, but that this was largely due to the fact that people of the United States had convinced themselves that it was their Manifest Destiny, and God-given right, to take/steal land from within the bounds of sea to shining sea. These lofty ideals were exclusive and firmly entrenched - only white, blond-haired, blue-eyed and theological racists need apply.
Dawna
Dawna -
I couldn't agree with you more. Manifest Destiny was probably our biggest mistake as a young nation. Who were we to try and claim lands that were already being lived on? Imperialism at its best from a nation that was born in its rabid stance against Imperalism. Racism however is not just an American issue. France, Spain, Germany, Holland, Italy and even England are guilty of racism during their colonial period in Africa and Southeast Asia. (Psst.. somebody please remind France of this; they seem to think that they've walked through history as meek as lambs).
On that note, here is some food for thought; I always like to remind those who study history that we often have a very bad habit of trying to place current views on race and equality upon those who lived in the past. I mean, by our standards, Abraham Lincoln, Thomas Jefferson and George Washington and many other icons would be classified as racists today when their attitudes towards other races were very much in line with the attitudes of the day. Neither Lincoln, Washington or Jefferson lived through the changing attitudes towards minorities that occurred in the 1950s and 1960s. We can even go further back in the past and look at the Crusades and classify that period of our history as a misguided holocaust whose only intent was to pry lands and wealth away from the Muslims. I guess we have to look upon the past as a kind of impartial observer. We can't really judge them, that should be left to God, but we definitely can and should learn from their mistakes. Learning from our past mistakes is really the true treasure to be found in studying history. I think its called Wisdom.
__________________ A little sincerity is a dangerous thing, and a great deal of it is absolutely fatal ~ Oscar Wilde, 19th Century writer & poet
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