Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Ah, the Institute for Historical Review--a holocaust denial site, among other things. I'll deal with this essay in either tomorrow or the next day in detail, Dawna. It will take some time to go through the whole thing to debunk it. Let me say for now that this is not real history. But I will give you details that will actually show you where and why it is wrong.
Thanks for posting this, Dawna. I wish I could deal with it immediately, but as it is a long essay it will take time to go through.
Please don't spend anymore time on this...the error is mine and to think that I made such a colossal one has left me in a complete state of disgrace. I've been interested in the Chiriqi project for sometime now, and the notes that I supplied with my posting...I did check most of them out, and since there were over a hundred of them, and I found them to be reputable, I didn't feel the need to read them all. I had also checked out Robert Morgan's credentials as an author and he seemed to have a good reputation as well.
In honesty Cash, and please believe that I am only slightly defending myself, I was associating the Historical Review with another site and had I known it's belief, the last thing I would have done is pull an author off that site and used his material, even if it was backed up with reliable sources.
I apologize to everyone for posting an author who has an association with something as vile as Holocaust denial, and I couldn't have made a worse mistake. Given my defense of Thomas DiLorenzeo last week, I worry that any credibility I might have had is long gone. With respect and my sincere apologies, I humbly withdraw from this thread.
It is not YOUR credibility that is, or has ever, been questioned, nor is it in any danger of being 'gone.'
There is not a one of us who at one time or another have posted sites or sources which at first blush appeared to be credible or 'good' to us. Please do not feel compelled to withdraw from a position or this thread if you firmly feel you are in the right or you feel you must take a strong stand concerning a view.
That is never wrong.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I echo Neil's comments. Don't beat yourself up about this.
Most of us have jobs, and the time available to participate in these discussion boards is strictly limited. So we all have to cut corners and take some sources at face value when in a perfect world it would be preferable to check out every word.
Dawna, I think it's clear we all value your opinion and your views here. You are not the first to admit to making a mistake on a source, I've done it and been lucky enough to catch it while I still had the option of deleting it, Thea has recently done it on another thread. The point is that everyone makes mistakes. Being willing to face up to them speaks highly of character and integrity.
Remember, we're all here trying to learn something. There is no shame in making a mistake, the shame would lay in refusing to admit that mistake.
I've learned a lot about checking to see what else a site has on it before I trust it to completely. That is not to say a disreputable site can't have actual facts on it, which is why it is so important to check things against other sources.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Please, you have not lost any credibility. We are all students here. Some of us have been students for a long time, others for a short time. Those of us who have been students for a long time have already made the mistakes that those who have only been students for a short time are making and will make.
I'll continue with my little project of debunking this article, merely because it needs to be done. I'm not one to just dismiss an author because of his affiliations without doing my homework on it, so I will go through the article and point out the errors I find.
Your post, Dawna, was welcome despite it's source. We're kind of like saying that Hitler was a rotten person, therefore, he could not have been a dynamic, persuasive speaker. If this site has a rep for denying the holocaust (and I don't know that), it doesn't mean that it has no right to comment on something else with integrity. And it doesn't mean that there are no parts of the holocaust open to question. PC police!
When I took a class in logic, SIU -- 60's, we talked about argumentum ad hominum and absurdum, there was another argument lableled for the prominent guy who had no qualification to give advice on a particular subject. I forget the latin name for it, but it had to do with the idea that a person with proven expertise in one area did not necessarily make him an authority in another. Consider Adm. Hyman Rickover .. (are you old enough for this?) who was given national credence for his comments on education.
Point is: no apology needed, none accepted. Post that puppy and we'll look at it (with a great deal of hope) dispassionately -- never mind that the originating organization may have taken one or two unpopular positions. What it proposed in one area may or may not be an indication on what it has to say about another.
Keep on truckin.
Last edited by ole; 03-18-2005 at 01:23 AM.
Reason: not finished
Thank you for your understanding and encouragement...I appreciate both. I have taken this situation to heart, not because of the content of my posting, but due to the fact that the article I provided had been posted on a holocaust denial site, which is most vile to me. I also have an interest in World War II, and I am aware that there are groups out there whose sole purpose is to prove that six million Jews did not suffer and die during the Second World War. It seems that I accidentally landed on one of their sites without being aware, but this will make me even more diligent in future.
I do stand by the material that I posted and I'll look forward to discussing it in future, if that's still okay. I'm actually glad this happened because it has only reaffirmed my belief that the people who I choose to dally with these days are nothing short of extraordinary. And yes, Ole, I am old enough to have heard of Hyman Rickover. :-)
Since it's the early hours of the morning, I can honestly say carpe diem!
I am most pleased by your post above and look forward to many and long debating sessions with you for the far future.
Now, as I remind Thea and Tommy, 'Get yir heard down reb, we aim to open fire!'
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Now I admit, West Virginia Community College is based out of a 'Northern' state and its not the biggest or the 'best' but comments anyway.
I also find it very interesting at one of the charts maintained on this thread which I will provide here. Here it is stated that those states with the most slaves (percentage wise to the white population) are the ones who seceded first, hinting that slavery was the primary concern of those states who first left the Union and that other states with less of a slave population had to be 'forced' by the firing on Ft. Sumter and Lincoln's call for troops in order to get the support to leave.
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
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