Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
As much as I'd have liked to delete the previous posts, Beowulf did stay within the bounds. Fortunately, he's dug his own hole and has demonstrated that he has nothing of substance to say. I don't get to delete ignorance of facts, only the off-side rants. And for that, I apologize.
Probably the part where he was finally able to wade out of your neck deep BS.
__________________ "In mortal combat, a man may and will become so infuriated by the din and dangers of a bloody fight that his heart will turn to stone and his every de sire [be] for blood."
John Hadley, 7th Indiana after the battle at Port Republic
We're on the same page, Larry, but one of us is speaking in a different language. Cause of war does not equal reasons for fighting.
ole
Sometimes my mumbling keeps me from getting slapped or otherwise rejected on general principles. I agree that cause of war does not equal reasons for fighting. There, I've written it again. What I have a problem with is the incessant efforts on the part of some folks who keep bringing up the slavery issue and trying to blame it on the Confederate states and the entire population therein and only on those folks. That just wasn't so. Too many Confederate soldiers died for participating in a war which they did nothing to create and certainly had no interest in the base causes (greed and slavery). We focus, methinks, far too long on a subject not worthy of the attention.
For me, the reasons thousands of soldiers, both north and south, became tangled up in this messy war far outweigh the strategy of the privileged bumpkins who decided slavery was a just cause for secession. Neil claims all are guilty by association and that these men were supporting a cause by their very actions and the fact they were there. I feel that just because some contemporary 'historians' claim that was the only thought prevalent in the land in 1861-65 don't make it so. I may be in a fog, but it's of my own making and I'm happy.
__________________ Ancestors in US Army: 13th TN Cav; 10th TN Cav; 3rd NC Inf
Ancestors in CSA Army: 48th VA; 63rd VA, 5th NC Cav; 37th NC
Wife and Grandson's CSA: 15th AL, 51st GA, 41st TN; 36th TN; GA Mil 1197 Dist
What I have a problem with is the incessant efforts on the part of some folks who keep bringing up the slavery issue and trying to blame it on the Confederate states and the entire population therein and only on those folks. That just wasn't so. Too many Confederate soldiers died for participating in a war which they did nothing to create and certainly had no interest in the base causes (greed and slavery). We focus, methinks, far too long on a subject not worthy of the attention.
And in that, Larry, you have my agreement. However, you're being overly sensitive. What sounds like blame is a reaction to the idea that the slaveocracy was not a large part of the idea of the rebellion. Your folks got caught up in various ways in various parts of that unfortunate misunderstanding. Those who started the war -- pick a side, any side -- have to bear the responsibility. In here, we get to nit-pick which side was correct (why can't I say left or right?) without assigning blame.
Seems that both sides exchibited dundereheaded BS. But it was what it was: jingoism run rampant. At an enormous cost. But I ramble. Time to take a long walk after which to finish mowing. And therein is the the real meaning.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
On this particular thread, especially, where many do accept that the war was the direct result of secession and that secession was the direct result of slavery.
If slavery was central to to the war, the it follows that it's centrality cannot be ignored.
Besides, the issue is usually a response to those few who deny any relationshiop of the war with the peculiar institution and instead blame the on a clever plot to entrap the south Or to 'many causes' among which slavery was only a small part.
On this particular thread, especially, where many do accept that the war was the direct result of secession and that secession was the direct result of slavery.
If slavery was central to to the war, the it follows that it's centrality cannot be ignored.
Besides, the issue is usually a response to those few who deny any relationshiop of the war with the peculiar institution and instead blame the on a clever plot to entrap the south Or to 'many causes' among which slavery was only a small part.
Money, power (ie self-interest)...these are the paramount issues for the North.
If these ingredients are not in the mix...then there is no war.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Money, power (ie self-interest)...these are the paramount issues for the North.
If these ingredients are not in the mix...then there is no war.
Ignores the fact that "Money, power (ie self-interest)" means ownership of slaves in the South and that this is what caused the war.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
What I have a problem with is the incessant efforts on the part of some folks who keep bringing up the slavery issue and trying to blame it on the Confederate states and the entire population therein and only on those folks.
We all have a problem with that, Larry. And there are some who have a big blame broom. We can overlook that, can't we? You have your morons and we have ours. It was always so and will be ever thus. (But our morons are smarter than yours.)
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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