Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
In context with this discussion, several years ago Mackubin Owens published an article on the Claremont Institute web page titled "The Case Against Secession."
It's worth reading, and can be found here.
__________________ "In leaving this unpretentious record, therefore, I seek to do simply what I would have had my fathers do for me.
KINSMEN OF THE COMING CENTURIES, I BID YOU HAIL AND GODSPEED!"
[From his Introduction to "Memoirs of a Volunteer," by John Beatty - published in 1879
In context with this discussion, several years ago Mackubin Owens published an article on the Claremont Institute web page titled "The Case Against Secession."
It's worth reading, and can be found here.
Its worth reading, i always know im in for a rollicking good laugh whenever Claremont publish the twaddle that they think is either law or history, its as usfull as the SU 50s acounts ofd the Great patriotic war, a biased version of psuedohistory that no one takes much notice.
__________________ "Democracy is two wolves and a lamb voting on what to have for lunch.
Liberty is a well armed lamb contesting the vote."
Benjamin Franklin, 1759
Perhaps Hanny could point out the factual errors? Like others on this board have done to the likes of DiLorenzo et al? Leave the personal stuff off board
Last edited by johan_steele; 07-06-2008 at 11:44 AM.
Reason: trying to keep thread on point
Still no info on those 'other' (non-slave related) issues that 'actually' was the cause of the Civil War.
Money, money, money, money, money, money....
That was the main issue for the Northern merchants, bankers, industrialists, capitalists...
...and guess who paid for the war?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
How many organized military units were provided by the south to fight for the Union
Depends on who you count
Don't think I would count German immigrants living in Missouri...
...or native Ohioans or New Englanders living in western Virginia...
...as Southern.
Don't think I would count a supposedly 'Kentucky' unit raised in Ohio...as Southern.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Its worth reading, i always know im in for a rollicking good laugh whenever Claremont publish the twaddle that they think is either law or history, its as usfull as the SU 50s acounts ofd the Great patriotic war, a biased version of psuedohistory that no one takes much notice.
Hanny,
Maybe you would be so kind as to post in detail your thoughts on Mr. Owens' article and tell us why his statements are twaddle. And please back up your arguments with references to published works (preferably not those of DiLorenzo, who has been systematically discounted as a reputable historian) so that those of us who tend to believe that the right to secession was pure (pardon me for borrowing your word) twaddle might also enjoy a rollicking good laugh.
__________________ "In leaving this unpretentious record, therefore, I seek to do simply what I would have had my fathers do for me.
KINSMEN OF THE COMING CENTURIES, I BID YOU HAIL AND GODSPEED!"
[From his Introduction to "Memoirs of a Volunteer," by John Beatty - published in 1879
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Depends on who you count
Don't think I would count German immigrants living in Missouri...
...or native Ohioans or New Englanders living in western Virginia...
...as Southern.
Don't think I would count a supposedly 'Kentucky' unit raised in Ohio...as Southern.
But would you count an Irish immigrant serving the Confederacy (such as Pat Cleburne) as "Southern"? Or a Prussian serving with Lee's ANV (such as von Borcke) as "Southern"? Or English, French and other foreign nationals required to serve in the militia of Confederate states as "Southern"? Or "Maryland" units raised in Virginia to serve the Confederacy as "Southern"?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
[1.]But would you count an Irish immigrant serving the Confederacy (such as Pat Cleburne) as "Southern"?
Yes.
Quote:
[2.]Or a Prussian serving with Lee's ANV (such as von Borcke) as "Southern"?
Yes.
Quote:
[3.]Or English, French and other foreign nationals required to serve in the militia of Confederate states as "Southern"?
As volunteers....yes. As conscripts...not so much.
Supplemental answer for 1-3: They all supported their adopted state & region.
The German immigrants in Missouri did not.
Quote:
Or "Maryland" units raised in Virginia to serve the Confederacy as "Southern"?
Tim
Yes.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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