Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
The Civil War began because the Northern States gained total control of the House of Representatives, Senate, and Presidency which caused the Southern States to loose all representation in the law making process and as a result the Southern States were highly taxed and the money raised from these taxes was spent for internal improvements in the Northern States, so it became neccesary for the Southern States to suceed from the Union and fight for their independence to form their own country called the Confederate States of America where they would have total control of the law making process and have a government that truely represented the Southern People of the United States of America.
The above should be memorized by every citizen of the United States, it should be in every history book, but it is not. The problem is the way our history teachers were taught. If your answer to the Civil War's cause has the phrase "too free the slaves" in it, then your dead wrong. If it has the phrase "over states rights" in it, then your also wrong. If it has the phrase "fought over taxes" in it , then you are wrong. It was fought because the South lost all representation in the law making process as stated above.
"....the South lost all representation in the law making process....." is Historically, inaccurate. As long as southern Senators and Representatives, took their seats in Congress, ALL southern states were represented. The only time the south lost it's representation was when they voluntarily tried to secede from the Union.
I'm not positive I understand what it is you're trying to say, here? Are you familiar with the various tariff schedules? Do you have any examples you'd like to give of tariffs that especially burdened the bulk of southerners more than the bulk of northerners?
Cedarstripper
Some of the most vehement supporters of the protective tarrifs were sugar planters in Louisiana and Texas.
__________________ "There must be more historians of the Civil War than there were generals figthing in it... Of the two groups, the historians are the more belligerent." David Donald, Lincoln Reconsidered (1961)
I'm not positive I understand what it is you're trying to say, here? Are you familiar with the various tariff schedules? Do you have any examples you'd like to give of tariffs that especially burdened the bulk of southerners more than the bulk of northerners?
Cedarstripper
How they voted on the issue much indicates where the burden fell-
Morrill Tariff vote
House of Representatives, 1860
....................................Yea...Nay
New England......................27- 0
Northeast..........................43- 2
Midwest............................26-12
Border................................7-10
South*...............................1-39
Far West.............................0- 1
Total...............................104-64
NE & the Northeast...............70- 2
South*................................1-39
*States that would later form the Confederacy.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
How they voted on the issue much indicates where the burden fell-
Morrill Tariff vote
House of Representatives, 1860
....................................Yea...Nay
New England......................27- 0
Northeast..........................43- 2
Midwest............................26-12
Border................................7-10
South*...............................1-39
Far West.............................0- 1
Total...............................104-64
NE & the Northeast...............70- 2
South*................................1-39
*States that would later form the Confederacy.
Why? It might indicate something else entirely. It might represent a desire to raise income to pay for the excesses and follies of the Buchanan (largely Southern) administration of 1857-61, which had quadrupled the national debt.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Like say what the goods the tariff actually had an impact on, which effected everyone everwhere, but in different degrees or like in the secesion ordinces that mention Tariffs as a cause for secesion.
I think Hanny is pointing out that the greatest impact fell primarily on the consumers of the more heavily tariffed goods. For example, the consumers of French spirits, silk, and cigars "suffered" more than the consumers of wooden buckets, salt, cotton cloth, and rum.
With apologies to Hanny if I've read that wrong.
The tariff rates varied according to product. Somewhere on this board is buried the rates of the Tariff of 1857 and those of the so-called Morrill Tariff. I'll not take the time to find it because it's probably not in any of the Tariff threads. (It might even be in this one.) A hint relating to staying on topic.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The Civil War began because the Northern States gained total control of the House of Representatives, Senate, and Presidency which caused the Southern States to loose all representation in the law making process and as a result the Southern States were highly taxed and the money raised from these taxes was spent for internal improvements in the Northern States, so it became neccesary for the Southern States to suceed from the Union and fight for their independence to form their own country called the Confederate States of America where they would have total control of the law making process and have a government that truely represented the Southern People of the United States of America.
Welcome aboard, Derrick. What you've outlined here is quite impossible and not at all worthy of memorizing. The election of 1860 did not cost the slave states their representation. Seven of the seceding states were out before Lincoln took office, so how was the south heavily taxed because of the loss of representation?
Until the Civil War, there was no direct tax imposed by the Federal Government. It derived its funding from tariffs and, in an almost insignificant amount, sale of Federal land.
I've seen no case made that conclusively shows that the tariffs impacted the southern consumers more than northern consumers; nor that the funding went disproportionately to the north. If you can demonstrate either or both, you will have my undying gratitude.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I think Hanny is pointing out that the greatest impact fell primarily on the consumers of the more heavily tariffed goods. For example, the consumers of French spirits, silk, and cigars "suffered" more than the consumers of wooden buckets, salt, cotton cloth, and rum.
With apologies to Hanny if I've read that wrong.
The tariff rates varied according to product. Somewhere on this board is buried the rates of the Tariff of 1857 and those of the so-called Morrill Tariff. I'll not take the time to find it because it's probably not in any of the Tariff threads. (It might even be in this one.) A hint relating to staying on topic.
Which would make it perplexing, for example, why "the South" would object to something like the increase in the Morrill Tariff proposed in 1860 on imports of raw wool and woolens. I might be wrong, but I would presume the greatest burden from that would fall on Northerners -- who were much in favor of it, according to Battalion.
Northern manufacturers, BTW, didn't care much one way or the other about the import tariff on raw wool. To them, the tariff was just an additional raw material cost that would be passed on to consumers. What concerned them was making sure an equivalent tariff was placed on finished woolen goods -- if there was none, the proposed tariff on imported wool would ensure a competitive advantage for foreign manufacturers. So the tariff on finished woolens was increased to reflect the equivalence of the tax on raw wool.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Exactly. The tariff on raw wool was favored by the northwestern wool growers, and the tariff on finished woolens was favored by the weavers. Those who bought finished woolens got the bite. Somehow, I get the feeling that a great many more northerners than southerners bought woolens.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
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