Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
I must confess, Beowulf, that I read not a single word of what you posted. I started to, with good intentions, but it all fell off the edge of the known world. It was just more of the same.
I tried to hire employees, but they said the benefits were better this way... early retirement... free housing... free medical... free food... great dating service... free child care... free transportation... free inservice training for a trade... plus, they are saving enough to buy back their own freedom in a few years, with no other bills!
Freedom just can't compete with so much 'free' stuff! (They say this is better than when the government owned them)... I can't discriminate, either! I have to have all races, now!
Too many people applying! We've got a regular commune here, now, with everyone working together!
Plus I am a Southerner, and a fan of Jeff Davis, so they pretty much run things, anyway...
Your claim does not agree with the following VA resolution supplied by Cash:
"JOINT RESOLUTION concerning the position of Virginia in the event of the dissolution of the Union. Adopted January 21, 1861.
"Resolved by the General Assembly of Virginia, That if all efforts to reconcile the unhappy differences existing between the two sections of the country shall prove to be abortive, then, in the opinion of the General Assembly, every consideration of honor and interest demands that Virginia shall unite her destiny with the slave-holding States of the South." [OR Series IV, Vol. I, p. 77]
So.....who is off base - you or the Virginia General Assembly? This resolution did not require that Virginia be asked to supply troops - after all, it was passed at the beginning of the first secession movement, almost four months prior to the attack on Sumter. All it gave as a reason to secede was a failure of reconcilliation.
Cedarstripper
Okay, so they were thinking South all along... But had not seceded, nor had they planned to, before Sumter...
And in the opinion of the General Assembly, Lincoln was going to make them decide, and if they did, they'd go South, thank you very much!
But if Lincoln had said, "Hey, you guys have slaves, and are Southerners, and our fight is not with you, so stay out of the way and let us through... and don't give us any grief, and you can sit this out... You guys aren't really on the internal improvements package the North is, and so they will be supplying troops and paying back some of that Federal patronage now... so you boys just wave to the troops, give us Lee, and we might get this thing done in jig-time!"
Then, Virginia might have kept still. For awhile.
My guess is they probably would have, until the first yankees started doing nasty things to the civilians, and then stealing things, and getting all uppity (like they did)
and next thing you know, Virginia is up to her eyeballs in Mr. Lincoln's war! Sort of like WWII. You can delay entry against a tyrant, but eventually...
So Sumter caused them to secede... And so Lincoln gets mad and attacks them as well...
I don't see the conflict you are trying to show me.
Virginia would have remained neutral for as long as she could, but knew she could not stand alone at any rate...
And there was no Border Confederacy being formed up as an alternative! I think what the assembly is saying here is that they know where the problem is coming from, who is causing it, and if enough people show support for the South, and the North gets sucked clean like a bone, even she will want to rejoin this new Conservative government, with no
Whigs allowed! (at least for awhile!).
Then, who is the traitor to the Union! Do you realize that a few less Yank states and that could have happened? If Maryland had had help early enough, and Delaware? And Missouri, and oh Lord, the thoughts of that!
The party of Mr. Jefferson rules again!
Beowulf
I need to look up Governor Letcher's letter on the subject in response to Lincoln demanding 2300 volunteers from Virginia, and his reply of "you have chosen to inaugurate Civil War"!
Okay, so they were thinking South all along... But had not seceded, nor had they planned to, before Sumter...
And in the opinion of the General Assembly, Lincoln was going to make them decide, and if they did, they'd go South, thank you very much!
But if Lincoln had said, "Hey, you guys have slaves, and are Southerners, and our fight is not with you, so stay out of the way and let us through... and don't give us any grief, and you can sit this out... You guys aren't really on the internal improvements package the North is, and so they will be supplying troops and paying back some of that Federal patronage now... so you boys just wave to the troops, give us Lee, and we might get this thing done in jig-time!"
Then, Virginia might have kept still. For awhile.
For someone who supposedly lives in Virginia, you don't understand Virginia.
For someone who supposedly lives in Virginia, you don't understand Virginia.
Regards,
Cash
All right, Cash the GWEAT and TEWWIBLE! How do you see Virginia responding to all of this upheaval?
(Did I mention the AWHILE part would have been exceedingly brief?
Because we are dealing with YANKEES here, and while Virginia might have tried to stay in the Union as long as she could... because she did have a lot of Unionist types, anyway...
(and was actually consumed with Tories during the Revolution!) she did have a lot of good old Celts who just plain like to throw down and fight like yard dogs!).
But this I gotta hear!
B-
Remember, I am reading diaries and accounts of those who were here. Remember also that Robert E. Lee is leading the Union forces through the South, and not some half-baked saddle-designer like McClellan nor any of the others... A goodly number of Virginia boys are in that number, regular army types... not volunteers.
Perhaps it is all the RECONSTRUCTION and MYTH-MAKING by LIBARULS which has fuzzed my brain!
So, when exactly did the other nations send in troops and Hessians and et cetera to help the US regain her country?
Who was the Lafayette from France, who stopped Lee outside of Gettysburg and demanded his surrender?
Who were the British troops, coming in to surround Appomattox and bring a quick close to the Civil War, with
a well-timed strike at the retreating Lee?
Who helped the North in defeating the Southern Traitors to the United States government?
I'd like names, places, ranks, and battles, please!
Beowulf
Beowulf,
I'm sorry if you are confused, but it was the Confederacy who was trying all out to gain recognition as an independent nation and gain the support of foreign powers. Like the idea of a least a mediated peace brokered by France and England and at most military assistance in the form of the Royal Navy to break the blockade.
As for the Union needing the help of "Hessians" or Lafayette, they didn't require such help because,
a. They were already recognized as a nation.
b. They had enough arms, men and equipment without outside excessive aid.
So your demand for names, places, ranks and battles, is nothing more than misdirection on your part.
Which is all beside the point and the historical fact that the South actively campaigned for recognition from the major European powers with designs to gain diplomatic and material assistance from them.
No amount of misdirection or verbal tirade is going to make that historical fact fade away.
And that it was the insistance of the South to keep and maintain slavery that doomed them from getting that desperately sought recognition.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I'm sorry if you are confused, but it was the Confederacy who was trying all out to gain recognition as an independent nation and gain the support of foreign powers. Like the idea of a least a mediated peace brokered by France and England and at most military assistance in the form of the Royal Navy to break the blockade.
As for the Union needing the help of "Hessians" or Lafayette, they didn't require such help because,
a. They were already recognized as a nation.
b. They had enough arms, men and equipment without outside excessive aid.
So your demand for names, places, ranks and battles, is nothing more than misdirection on your part.
Which is all beside the point and the historical fact that the South actively campaigned for recognition from the major European powers with designs to gain diplomatic and material assistance from them.
No amount of misdirection or verbal tirade is going to make that historical fact fade away.
And that it was the insistance of the South to keep and maintain slavery that doomed them from getting that desperately sought recognition.
Unionblue
Oh. For a moment, I thought the world was rallying to your cause, to help stamp out the holocaust of negro servitude in the hellish South!
After all, you guys make SUCH a BIG DEAL out of SLAVERY!
All we know about Beowulf, is from his posts and from those we know he is against emancipation.
Yeah, he thinks slavery is a good thing!
Quote
Originally Posted by Beowulf
"I tried to hire employees, but they said the benefits were better this way... early retirement... free housing... free medical... free food... great dating service... free child care... free transportation... free inservice training for a trade... plus, they are saving enough to buy back their own freedom in a few years, with no other bills!"
__________________ "Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
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