Stephen's Corner Stone Speech

[dawna]

A question regarding the slavery issue. How do you reconcile secession not being about slavery, when Alexander Stephen's Corner Stone Speech is extremely racist, and Mr. Stephen's is very succinct in an entry to his 1866 diary in which he reflected that "Slavery was without a doubt the occasion of secession?"

Dawna

[bill_torrens]

Hi Dawna,

I’m going to pick you up on your observation that “Alexander Stephen's Corner Stone Speech is extremely racist”.

The following is nothing more than a personal opinion, but my view is that “racism” is a 20th century concept - and probably a post-1945 one at that. Calling anyone who lived in the 1860s a racist is like calling King Henry VIII of England (the one with the 6 wives) a sexist. In a very narrow sense it is true, but in a broader sense the criticism is completely meaningless. How can you be guilty of a “thought crime” before the society in which you live has even recognised it as being one?

What “crimes” do you and I commit on a daily basis against the unimaginable moral standards of a future century? And will the generations who follow us have the right to judge us on that basis?

Bill

[dawna]

Point taken Bill. In the time of the Civil War then, what would you call white people claiming superiority over black people?

Dawna

[bill_torrens]

Dawna,

Given that this belief was held by almost everyone in the Caucasian world of that time, I'd simply call them white people.

Bill

[dawna]

Bill:

Whether it was considered racism at the time or not, Mr. Stephens firmly believed in the "principal of the subordination of the inferior to the superior," and that the "relationship of the black to white race was not morally or politically wrong." Mr. Stephens felt that slavery was a "conformity to nature and best for both races." I'm not quite sure that I follow Mr. Stephen's verbal formula, but it certainly seemed to have served it's purpose at the time. However, Stephens did admit that there were things about slavery that didn't meet his approval such as the education that was denied to slaves and their marriages not being recognized.

The Vice President of the Confederacy clearly stated that the "cornerstone of the Confederacy is slavery", and maybe I just keep spinning my wheels on this issue, but I am genuinely trying to understand how Southerners can say that this wasn't the major cause of secession?

And I keep going back to what must seem like a very simplistic approach, but does the right to secede exist to those who deny to anyone the right to liberty?

Dawna

Dawna,
You mention you seem to keep going back to a simplistic approach and it reminded me of something I said some time ago on another thread. One that I Highly recommend reading in it's entirety. The 'Personal Opinion' thread(s). Seriously. Give it a chance. It is a good read.
I thought I might save myself some time and just re-post the appropriate part here if it is ok?

"Bear in mind I am clinically insane. My thought processes are less than easily definable. Throw in the fact I have zero education and a room temperature IQ to the mix and you see why it will be difficult for me to elucidate properly and cogently on the topic.

I never seek enlightenment. I wait for it. Yet it occurred to me, that while I was waiting for it, that seeking perplexity might be more fun. And after all, enlightenment begins where perplexity ends....I am still perplexed.


I do not think there is a Philosopher’’s Stone to the historical alchemy all mankind shares. We hear and use the phrase ““defining moment”” without the clear knowledge there isn’’t actually such a thing we can grasp in reality. I do not think there are really ““facts.”” Or morals to a tale. Just a bunch of stuff that happened. Because everything that occurs is so fluid, so vastly multifaceted, no, multidimensional, that our minds are incapable of encompassing it. So we dissect it into more digestible pieces. We grab a thread. We pull it. As my dad used to say ““Grab a root and growl.”” We are unique in one thing more than any other. Our insatiable curiosity. If there was a cave with a button and a great big sign over it saying ““Do not push this button under any circumstances. The world will be destroyed.”” The paint would not even have time to dry. So we dig, we hold it up to look at, to show others, yet even in the act of holding it up, everyone else is seeing it from a different perspective.

The problem I think occurs because people in general by and large have limited time. So they tend to want a simple, easily understood explanation. For instance, I am sure that you have heard of the National Park Service insisting that the CW battlefields will now teach slavery as the cause of the war at the battlefields themselves. Yet, some great minds have, for the last 142 years have argued this very point. Without truly resolving it. Except to each individual. Yet the communal mind is not comfortable with that. More so today than ever before. We are a world of sound bytes, instant access. Heck, we are a society that screams ““Hurry Up!”” at the microwave. They want/need a cookie cutter pat answer. Yet history, with all it’’s rich and chaotic varieties of flawed human existence is just not that simple

I think, we are extremely lucky to live today. I can lament many things but the absence of knowledge available is not one of them. Here I lay, typing away on my ******** keyboard to some of the best people I have ever met. I can hold up a target of ideas for everyone to shoot at. I expect criticisms of everything I say. Gosh, it’’d be boring if everyone was agreeing with me. In fact if people agree with me I think I must have it figgered wrong. ........I have a vast interest in stuff, not only the War between the States. Revolutions always come around again, That is why they are called revolutions. I study pretty much every war. In fact, every aspect of history I possibly can, not only war. For it all is tied together in a human Brownian Motion that helps me understand better. By understanding the English Civil War better I realize where many of the solid roots of our own war got started growing. History is like a Mobius Circle to me. Well....a lot of Mobius Circles...."

There is more you might like to look at regarding Stephens. A must read really.
But I would point out one important thing about the Cornerstone speech and Stephens. His beliefs and attitudes clashed with just about everyone in the CSA. He was a virtual exile as vice president.

http://www.constitution.org/cmt/ahs/consview.htm

As Always,
YMOS
tommy




(Message edited by aphillbilly on September 27, 2004)

[bill_torrens]

Dawna,

I'm about to go back to work after 18 days holiday, so I need an early night. Forgive this very brief reply.

The question you ask is entirely germane, since many of our Union friends on these boards are fond of the argument that the C.S.A. had no right to independence because it was evidently less than a perfect society.

All I can say is that no nation in human history has ever succeeded in giving everyone of its citizens/inhabitants "the right to liberty". Such a society would be Utopia, which does not exist. My own opinion is that, by any objective standard, the Confederate States of America supplied as many of its inhabitants with a reasonable degree of liberty as did the United States of America.

If the C.S.A. had no right to exist because of its evident imperfections, how can any rational being make a case for the existence of the U.S.A.?

Bill

Bill,
I must apologize for me being dim-witted and forgetting to give you a hearty welcome back. So...errr..Welcome Back!
Legs sore?
YMOS
tommy

[unionblue]

Dawna,

I wonder if I may step into the middle of your posting here with Bill and Tommy and ask a question?

Was slavery considered a good thing throughout the world at the time of Stephen's speech? Or a moral wrong?

And Dawna, I very much like the first part of your question in your very first post. "How can you reconcile secession not being about slavery,..."

I'd like to hear that myself.

YMOS,
Unionblue
PS Welcome back Bill! Good to see you on the boards again!

(Message edited by Unionblue on September 27, 2004)

Neil,


"I'd like to hear that myself."

That is an easy one. All you have to do is listen.