Civil War History - Secession and PoliticsWas it Slavery, or was it States Rights? Perhaps it was the election of Lincoln? What were the real reasons for Southern Secession and what were the political issues in this time of war? Find your answers here in the Secession and Politics Disussion.
Oh please, Tommy, please! Tell us again! Besides, I may have missed something the first dozen times. You know, how the South used slavery as a smoke screen when they really meant the tariffs. Or how about the one about escaping that all-intrusive Big Federal Government?
Just thought a fresh thread with a new person might jack up the creativity a bit.
Anxious,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Aha! No, it just proves my senses just went into survival mode and all the mental filters were working. After the first dozen times, I was waiting for something a bit more original or perhaps a bit more based on historical reasoning, but I promise, I remain alert for anything new or fresh.
Promise,
Unionblue
YMOS,
Unionblue
(Message edited by Unionblue on September 27, 2004)
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I know that Bill can't join in on our conversation right now, but I'm confused by this statement and perhaps Bill might clarify this when he gets a chance, "If the C.S.A. had no right to exist because of its evident imperfections, how can any rational being make a case for the existence of the U.S.A.?" Maybe it's just the late hour, but I'm just not getting this theory/justification?
I find these comments of Georgia's Howell Cobb's a little hard to swallow: "The existence of a negro soldier is totally inconsistent with our political aim and with our social as well as political system. We surrender our position whenever we introduce the Negro to arms. If a negro is fit to be a soldier, he is not fit to be a slave, and if any large portion of the race is fit for free labour – fit to live and to be useful under the competitive system of labour – then the whole race is fit for it." I'm aware that the mindset of the Civil War was much different but these are still very telling statements. If racism had not yet been defined at the time of the Civil War, holding another human being in bondage was certainly considered a moral wrong.
Maybe my question is impossible to answer: "And I keep going back to what must seem like a very simplistic approach, but does the right to secede exist to those who deny to anyone the right to liberty?"
"If the C.S.A. had no right to exist because of its evident imperfections, how can any rational being make a case for the existence of the U.S.A.?"
What he is saying is that if the CSA was imperfect because of slavery and it's attitude towards blacks and those imperfections deemed it wrong to exist then the US is in the same boat. The US was created with slavery. It had legal slavery. It had constitutional protections. Pot kettle Black re issue of slavery.
Sometimes, like the good doctor said, "a cigar IS just a cigar."
From the statements and documentary comments you have provided, it's pretty simple. The South did secede over the issue of slavery, not over a form of new liberty or tariffs or intrusive big government, but slavery. Did it have the 'right' to secede while maintaining 4 million in bondage? Dam good question. Keep going like you are, read and research, question, research some more and the results will be pretty plain. Make your own discoveries and conclusions. None of us on this board will be entirely right or entirely wrong. But, my oh my, do we have our opinions!
Bill has made a very interesting point, just because were 'imperfections' in the CSA, how can any rational being make a case for the existence of the USA? I submit the USA had a right to existence not because of its imperfections, but because it evolved and moved into the future and was willing to change while the CSA did not evolve and tried to remain tied to the past.
No matter how much we may talk about having limited time, no matter how many threads there are or which one we decide to grasp at, some things remain absolute. Slavery was recognized as a moral wrong, a disgrace and contradiction to the ENTIRE nation, which permitted other nations to point and laugh at the ideals of the founding fathers, the Declaration of Independence, the Constitution and the Bill of Rights.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Dawna,
The US was not trying to right a wrong. A few abolitionists were. The Republican party were using the issues. Just that. They used the “issue,” not the reality. They only were trying to take away State’s Rights by not allowing the territories to decide for themselves as all the other states had. But by doing this they insured control not only of the territory the new railroad would go through, not only who would be imported to populate it but also the Power it would bring. Not to the nation of course, but to the moguls behind Lincoln’s party. The US was not trying to right a wrong. Just some were using issues to jockey for power. Just like thy do today. If it is not a usable issue, they ignore it. Like I have said before, if slavery was SUCH an “issue,” SUCH a moral wrong, why do we support slavery today?
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
I have said it before but I just gotta say it again. I'd have had to voted for Bell and the Constitutional Union Party. Notice the states he carried are the ones who did not secede until Lincoln ........ If only he had won.
CivilWarTalk.com -
A free and friendly Civil War community. 
Linear Mode
