Civil War History - Gettysburg ForumGettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!
On June 30th. 1863, Gen. Pettigrew approached Gettysburgs with his Brigade. Once, he learned that union cavalry was occupying the town. He choose to turn back to avoid an engagement.
On the night of the 30th of June 1863, Gen. Hill, Gen. Heth and Gen. Pettigrew discussed what was saw earlier in the day at Gettysburg. Gen. Hill dismissed there being union cavalry at Gettysburg instead it must have been local militia. Gen, Heth decided he would send his whole Division into Gettysburg on July 1st. Gen. Hill did not object to Gen Heth plan.
My Point:
Gen. Hill's dismissal of union cavalry at Gettysburg set the stage for the Battle of Gettysburg.
Gen Heth plan to take his whole division into Gettysburg must mean he did not fully dismiss Gen. Pettigrew belief that union cavalry not militia was in Gettysburg.
Note Gen. Heth was planing for a fight at Gettysburg on the morning of July !st. When his division ran into heavy fire they did not retire as of Lee's orders. He had already chose to fight that day.
Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill knew they were going to engaged a union force at Gettysburg on the morning of Jule !st..
The Battle of Gettysburg was started by these two generals because they did not fully trust Gen. Pettigrew opinion.
Gen. Heth and Gen. Hill set the corner stone for Lee's great defeat because their desire to prove a junior General opinion was incorrect...
Something to ponder....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I look at it this way. Gen. Heth offers the sent his whole division and Gen. Hill goes along with it. WHY??
Why did Gen. Heth just sent out another recon brigade or regiment why the whole division? To prove Gen. Pettigrew was wrong or fear Gen Pettigrew was right..
Why on July 1st was Gen Pettigrew Brigade regulate to the rear when it was in position to lead?
I think Gen. Pettigrew **** off Gen Heth and Gen. Hill the night before...
A notion....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
IMO, it was a simple matter of logical progression. Whether Pettigrew was scouting for signs of Union military presence near Lee's projected area of concentration for the ANV OR just looking for shoes, Pettigrews mission is not to bring on a general battle.
Pettigrew goes out, contacts a Union Cavalry screen and pulls back to report to higher command, Heth, wants to learn more about the Cavalry screen, and informs Hill that he, Heth, will take his Div. and find out, which decision, Hill fully concurs. The rest is history.
IMO, it was a simple matter of logical progression. Whether Pettigrew was scouting for signs of Union military presence near Lee's projected area of concentration for the ANV OR just looking for shoes, Pettigrews mission is not to bring on a general battle.
Pettigrew goes out, contacts a Union Cavalry screen and pulls back to report to higher command, Heth, wants to learn more about the Cavalry screen, and informs Hill that he, Heth, will take his Div. and find out, which decision, Hill fully concurs. The rest is history.
It is not ae simple as you put it.
The conversation was intense Gen. Pettigrew brought in another one of his men to support his case that union cavalry was at Gettysburg not militia..
Gen. Hill was confident that the union army was still 16 miles south of Gettysburg and dismissed Gen. Pettigrew finding..
Gen Heth, I think was trying to split the baby and offered to take his whole Division into Gettysburg. Gen. Hill supported.
By committing a Division Gen. Hill and Gen. Heath had already decided to fight for Gettysburg without consulting Gen. Lee for they knew union forces were in Gettysburg..
A notion...
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
I also wish to mention, that General Lee did not want any forced engagements prior to having an entire army collected. As it was; the CSA was strung out. In addition, General Lee had no information contrary to what Pettigrew had reported; to which militia might have been in there; plus the papers were calling for militia to be assembled; thus -- a possible explaination of just Heth's Division--a show of force against militia.
However, Hill and Heth; both mistook the presence of Buford's advanced scouts and vedettes, sentries and pickets; as being militia.
Regardless, none of them checked in with Lee --or with Colonel Taylor; Lee's 'right hand man;' and or any staff officer at Lee's camp.
Lee has to fiind out about things when he heard the rumble of cannons; to which Longstreet standing there could not hear but, feel the earth vibrating.
Longstreet's Division wasn't up yet. Longstreet's Division was still stuck behind Hill's Division.
Just some thoughts,
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
Why did Gen. Heth just sent out another recon brigade or regiment why the whole division? To prove Gen. Pettigrew was wrong or fear Gen Pettigrew was right..
Well, why not the whole division? The Confederate Army is moving, he could go off with a portion of his division and come back and find out that units have been moved and attached elsewhere.
; to which militia might have been in there; plus the papers were calling for militia to be assembled; thus -- a possible explaination of just Heth's Division--a show of force against militia.
However, Hill and Heth; both mistook the presence of Buford's advanced scouts and vedettes, sentries and pickets; as being militia.
Wolf,
I see this talk of Militia is find and good but once the fighting between Heth Division and Bufords Division started. Gen. Heth should have figure out quickly that is was not militia and back off. (Right?)
Remember, they were still under orders not to bring an engagement so why did Gen. Heth forced the engagement. (Why?)
Gettysburg's an objective worth fighting for and did Gen, Hill inform Gen. Lee, Gettysburg or bust? (An Objective?)
The conversation on the night of June 30th obviously went terribly wrong between Gen. Heth, Gen. Hill. and Gen. Pettigrew for they chose to fight for Gettysburg at any cost and Gettysburg became an objective without Gen Lee's knowledge. (Laying a course for defeat?)
Gettysburg was not worth fighting over the AoNV could have passed bypassed it....
A notion or two....
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
Gettysburg was not worth fighting over the AoNV could have passed bypassed it....
Easier said than done. Gettysburg was a hub. To get anywhere in that part of the state, one had to go through or within spitting-distance of Gettysburg.
Lee had two corps on a single road into Gettysburg. Another corps was east of there. To consolidate these, he had to have Gettysburg so as to have the roads in and out -- offensive capability and an escape plan.
Whether or not there was an element of distrust between Heth and Hill and Pettigrew, I don't see moving Heth's division to secure Gettysburg as something beyond Lee's intention. With Gettysburg he has two corps consolidated against the approaching blue horde, with a third close behind.
ole
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