Some thoughts after civil war trip

[LongstreetUnknown]

I just got back from a second civil war trip and I just felt like sharing some thoughts, perhaps posing some questions as well. Seems the activity around this forum has picked up recently and I'd love to pick the brains of some of the veterans now that the opportunity presents itself....

1. James Longstreet really doesn't get any respect. I went to visit his grave site in Georgia and while, yes, he does have a decent marker and a US flag I have to admit, I guess I still expected something more. I'm not sure what I had in mind as the Longstreet Society (?) did a wonderful job with his grave site but I still wanted more.

Also, I understand why he has a US flag but no adjoining CSA flag? Just curiosities.

I also visited the Jackson shrine and met a ranger for the NPS who was wonderful but seemingly biased. He was very open about saying Longstreet was insubordinate at Gettysburg and pointed out his failings in independent command, etc.

Not to mention how awkward the Longstreet monument at Gettysburg looks, nor the fact that this statue is the only one on any battlefield for Longstreet.

2. What happened to Jackson's grave site recently?! I went and the gate surrounding his grave was completely smashed in on one side. Did somebody crash a vehicle there? Anybody shedding some light on the situation would be great.

3. Fredericksburg is almost a forgotten battlefield. There's only a small section of the original wall left and the view from the heights is, well, understandably different than what it would have been back then.

4. Chancellorsville is really a beautiful tour for aesthetic reasons on its own. It was my second time there but this time we came across 3 different fallen trees right across the road. Me and two other friends spent 15-20 minutes trying to move one.. the results were not pretty.

5. The licensed battlefield tours at Gettysburg are fantastic! This was my second time taking it and both times were amazing.

6. The new visitor's center at Gettysburg is head and shoulders above what the old one was. Excellent facility.

7. I didn't know the Museum of the Confederacy changed their exhibitions. I noticed Semmes's coat was replaced by Kemper's this time around in the Gettysburg section.

Just some random thoughts passing through my head at 5:30 in the morning. Thoughts/answers welcome/appreciated!

[mt155]

I'm not a big fan of the monument of Longstreet at Gettysburg. It looks more like Tom Beringer from the movie than it does Old Pete himself. I was in the Burg over Thanksgiving before the new visitor center was open but I hear nothing but good things. It sounds like you had a great trip. I hail from Texas so when we go back east we are always torn between stay at one location for a good in depth look or try to hit many locations for a short period each. Never enough time for walking the battle fields!

Mike T.

["Lo" 1863]

Originally Posted by LongstreetUnknown

2. What happened to Jackson's grave site recently?! I went and the gate surrounding his grave was completely smashed in on one side. Did somebody crash a vehicle there? Anybody shedding some light on the situation would be great.

3. Fredericksburg is almost a forgotten battlefield. There's only a small section of the original wall left and the view from the heights is, well, understandably different than what it would have been back then.

7. I didn't know the Museum of the Confederacy changed their exhibitions. I noticed Semmes's coat was replaced by Kemper's this time around in the Gettysburg section.

2. Yes, I know exactly what you are talking about. My father and I took a civil war trip up through the valley at the beginning of Spring. We stopped at Lexington to see all the sites. I was shocked to see what happened to Jackson's Grave and also angry. I cannot believe they have not fixed that yet! So now I am even more ANGRY!!!!!

3. Sadly Fredericksburg is almost gone. We are lucky to have what is left. I wish people will understand what that place was and how much history, honor and sacrifice was there.

7. That is surprising to me also. Maybe they just have so much stuff they can't display it all at once or they let some of their artifacts go on loan to other places. I am going to try and make it back up to Richmond soon and am looking forward to my visit there.

[PvtClewell]

1. I alternate between respect and despair over Longstreet. Perpetually slow, petulant, he was still a hard, dedicated fighter when the firing began. Lee respected his abilities, so that should be good enough for me, I guess.

In 1994, on the way home from a visit to Atlanta, we stopped off at Gainesville and made the side trip to Alta Vista Cemetery (which was huge). I was suitably impressed by the gravesite and plot, which was decorated by a couple of Confederate battle flags.

No statue for Longstreet on Monument Avenue, either. What does that tell you?

The statue at Gettysburg makes me chuckle.

Was the NPS person at Guiney's Station Frank O'Reilly? We made a visit there one time and he was cutting the grass there. I wonder if that's in his job description.

3. Fredericksburg has one of the view distinctions of a major battle that took place inside a city's limits, and one of the first examples of house-to-house combat. I would guess that over the years it's difficult to preserve history and still promote economic and residential development and growth within the historic section. I'd love to have the open field between the canal (or mill race) and Marye's Heights, but how practical is that?

Having said that, the right side of the Confederate lines are still decent from Hazel Run down to Hamilton's Crossing. Well, as decent as can be expected. You can still trek out to Bernard's Cabins if you wish. The addition of the Slaughter Pen property is also welcomed.

4. Chancellorsville. Are you talking about the road for Jackson's flank march? If you are, it doesn't surprise me if trees are lying across the road, which for now, at least, is still rather undeveloped. The NPS is seriously understaffed and probably doesn't get many folks out that way for cleanup.

5. My friends and I hire an LBG every time we go to Gettysburg. Outstanding.

6. I will be in Gettysburg in a few weeks. Am looking forward to the new visitors' center.

7. I think I remember being told the MOC usually has its its exhibits on some kind of a rotation. They have a ton of stuff.

[M E Wolf]

Dear LongstreetUnknown,

In regard to General James Longstreet, General Early made it his personal mission to trash Longstreet's reputation when he was in charge of the Confederate Historical Society; as well as a few others.

General Longstreet should have published his memoirs while Lee was alive; as Lee would have not tolerated such comments. People not close to Lee, such as General Lee, Major/Col. Walter H. Taylor; Major/General Sorrel; Captain Goree and other aides around both Generals knew otherwise and, well -- in Colonel Walter Taylor's book Four Years with General Lee; his personal feelings withstanding about Gettysburg, from his personal judgment--Taylor was still extremely disturbed at the attacks on General Longstreet's reputation and service record in the CSA.

There are no streets named in Alexandria, Virgina --for Longstreet. Have it for every other General but, not Longstreet. Yet, the Official Records of the Rebellion documents that General Longstreet was the only General who brought General JEB Stuart what is now considered Falls Church; the only northeastern Virginia effort to expell the Union forces by shelling Bailey's Crossroads; and John S. Mosby remained in the area to harass that area and abouts; until the end of the Civil War. Nobody tried to push the Union back to Washington as far as Longstreet did. Not even Beauregard or Jackson--or Lee! Lee's family was all around there--he didn't press. So, as far as 'guts' and 'determination,' Longstreet did more in my mind in 1861 for Northern Virginia.

The other upset for the Southern loyalists; was that Longstreet was not one of those 'romantic' southern men -- he looked forward and for progress. His 'stand' in abandoning the Lost Cause and get on with life did not help his image. Having been General Grant's best man at his wedding; the friendship had been renewed and as an unemployed confederate officer; to get US money, pay and a means of support--he went to work for General Grant. I don't blame Longstreet at all -- he had not fully recovered from his serious neck wound and his right arm was useless so had to learn how to write with his left. He was already partially deaf/hard of hearing and Lee and Jackson, as well as close associates would know but, Early was never that close--and he just waged a smear campaign. But, Longstreet stubbornly went to a Confederate reunion after some time passed and those who were there, to include Jeff Davis, hugged 'ole Pete' and embraced him most happy. I would have thought after Lee, Davis' applaud of Longstreet would have shut down Early and gang's effort to besmirch Longstreet's reputation.

Also, Longstreet wasn't elequent and wrote plainly--he was a soldier all his life until he was appointed by Grant in positions.

I do believe for the feature of Longstreet in the 1993 film Gettysburg, finally did General Longstreet get the much deserved reputation for being wise. I do respect General Lee and know how loved he remains but, he was a man--not a God. Unfortunately, he was put on a high place to which I think Lee couldn't escape but, as Lee depended on Longstreet to carry out all his brilliant battles--especially after Jackson's death--Lee's "Old War Horse," -- in equestrian circles it is the highest praise one can hear. He carried Lee by completing Lee's missions to the best of his abilities. Longstreet felt deminished and asked to be relieved and allowed to retire from command but, Lee asked him to stay on--so he did.

I personally think General Longstreet remains the 'Rodney Dangerfield' of the entire Confederate Army to the present. I believe that the Shaara book "Killer Angels", the film Gettysburg and Jeff Shaara's "Last Full Measure" will seal the fact that General Longstreet never really let Lee down or let the Confederates down.

Longstreet also kept an honest reputation --whereas, Early was caught up in corruption and lies. It would be logical to me, to know this --to review all what Early had spoken about, in regard to Longstreet.

I must also proffer for thought; in reading Letters and Correspondences of General Robert E. Lee; ; Lee was subjected to falsehoods also. Lee took the position where he would not involve himself to become a participant in newspaper/magazine publication tit for tat or back and forth debates in defending himself. It may be very likely that Lee advised General Longstreet to do the same--thus his lack of participating in the back and forth brawls in print form. Lee's feeling was--those who know the truth are those who matter--not the general public.

I further offer, General Meade was subjected to awful allegations concerning Gettysburg, and within the Official Reports of the Rebellion; President Lincoln, Secretary of War and General Halleck; Chief of Staff in getting these newspaper reports written by a person in a non-de-plume identity; which they (Meade, Halleck, Lincoln) believed it to be Sickles --as the information would be known by him--as well as Sickles was back in Washington sooner than any other from Gettysburg, due to his wounds--had ample opportunity to work with newspaper reporters on "Newspaper Row" -- now where the National Press Building occupies; as it did during the Civil War - close to the Executive Mansion on 14 Street between E. Street, NW (Near Willard Hotel) and F. Street NW.
That said, Meade was advised not to give any interview or to put anything in the newspapers. Lincoln and Sec. of War did the needed talking.

So, this may have been the popular posture when high ranking officers were under character attack. Which left those attacking free rein to besmirch Longstreet's character.

I do believe that, history can be manipulated but, truth will be known and really--if someone can look in the mirror and know they did their best, they didn't need to lie, cheat, steal or kill to be respected or heard; that is the important thing. The important people knew and most of all -- God knows.

Yes, Longstreet remains maligned. That is the tragedy. He was a darn good man. He couldn't even attend his first wife and children's funeral-- General Picket had to do that for him. Lee and the CSA needed Longstreet. Longstreet gets shot by the Confederates; not that far where friendly fire shot Jackson--Longstreet lived but, loss the use of his arm. He returned on the battlefield, even though not totally healed. He didn't have to--his personal duty told him to.

I agree the statue to Longstreet is insulting--at Gettysburg. I think he should be astride his horse Hero (Black Irish Thoroughbred), in his likeness and on a good sized marble foot as to raise him where he ought to be; with a classical bronze statue.

I like to believe, General James "Pete" Longstreet can hear our thoughts and prayers; and can feel that someone will be fair to him at last.

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf

["Lo" 1863]

I thought this might be interesting to put out there. Many wonder why there is now monument to General Longstreet in Richmond on Monument Ave. Well I'm not sure if this plays into the mix or not but, just look at the states where these general's were from.

Robert E. Lee---Virginia
Thomas Jackson---Virginia
J.E.B. Stuart---Virginia

James Longstreet---South Carolina

Now I just thought this was something to put out there and to think about. I'm not saying that there should not be a monument to Longstreet because the man was a great soldier. He deserves so much more respect and honor then he gets these days. He is a true hero of the south and a great American.
That being said it would be nice to see a monument to him maybe in Columbia, South Carolina...on the state capital grounds. Anyway something to talk about. Take care all!!!!!

[VS on the belt plate]

My corp commander Lt. Genl A. P. Hill has a great monument in Richmond too~did you know that?

Longstreet,born in SC,but I think he was appointed from Georgia when he went to West Point. So he is sorta from both states,but that is beside your point.

Regards,

VS

["Lo" 1863]

Sorry I forgot about General Hill because he does have a nice monument/grave marker.

[diddyriddick]

And let's not forget...He became a Republican and a Catholic!

[whitworth]

marched into Pennsylvania, they were losing the war.

By mid-1863, the Confederacy lost so much territory in the west, holding onto Vicksburg didn't really depreciate the fact, the Confederacy had lost in the west.

Gettysburg might have been a small Confederate victory, and Lee would have still been forced to retreat to Virginia.
He totally lacked supplies to lay siege to any large northern city. He had enough ammunition for one good battle. Even if the Union army had withdrawn to Maryland, Lee would have had all his army could have handled at Gettysburg.

In the minds of many, Lee never made an error and Gettysburg will always only signify the defeat of the Confederacy army there, but not the short-comings of the Army of Northern Virginia, so far from their supply base.

The short-comings of the Confederate army, was its inability to supply its troops well, more than 100 miles from a supply base.
Lee won battles; Lee lost at Antietam and Gettysburg. These battles were outside the supply circle of his army.