Arnhem and Gettysburg

[whitworth]

Anyone else see any similarity. I watched a Bridge Too Far over the weekend, the movie of the story of the failed attempt to capture Arnhem in WWII.
The book and movie were critical of the British plan, some thirty years after the war.
The British were totally dependent on moving a large corps over 64 miles in a few days. A bridge too far; a narrow road too long.

Lee attempted to move his army over a narrow road; perhaps Gettysburg was - A Town Too Far. Lee chose to move more than two corps some 25 miles over one narrow road through a mountain gap.

I think Lee gets a pass from historians because he got more of his troops to Gettysburg on the first day. But much of his army did not arrive until after dark that first day, such as Johnson's Division, Ewell's reserve artillery and Longstreets entire corps. Pickett would not come up until late on July 2.

Lee's choice of using one road is eerily similar to General Montgomery's use of a single road to Arnhem. Each seem to underestimate the choke points both armies would encounter.
Plus each side had poor intelligence on the defensive ability of the enemy at Gettysburg and Arnhem.

It seems no historian, none I recall, ever faulted Lee for leaving Chambersburg and tying up his two corps and all his wagons and artillery, attempting to pass over the only route to Gettysburg.

I would rank this attempt of General Lee, with Montgomery's failed attempt. Poor attack ingress for both armies, and the supposition that both could occupy towns without much opposition.

Regretable I think from a military tactical standpoint that no history of Gettysburg was ever titled -Gettysburg - A Town too Far. Or no book with which I am aware.

[William]

Arnhem only delayed the inevitable. Gettysburg began the inevitable.

[diddyriddick]

Interesting point, Whitworth. But I was under the impression that Lee had people coming in from all over the northwestern quarter of the compass. Somebody correct me if I'm wrong.

[PvtClewell]

"Anyone else see any similarity."

Ummm. No.

I think I understand what you're trying to get at. Hill, and then Longstreet, both come down the Chambersburg Pike, but Ewell's Corps is up in Carlisle and headed toward Harrisburg when he gets the word to form up at either Gettysburg or Cashtown. And Early's Division is way to the east in York and headed toward Wrightsville for some mischief on the Susquehanna before he turns back.

So when the meeting engagement that turns out to be Gettysburg takes place, Hill is coming down the Chambersburg Pike from the west, Ewell is coming down the Carlisle Road from the north and Early is on the Harrisburg Road from the northeast.

When they arrive at Gettysburg, it's kind of the perfect Confederate storm that ends up nearly destroying two Union Corps — the 1st and 11th corps — on the first day.

I'd venture to say that Lee came closer to victory at Gettysburg than the allies ever did at Arnhem.

[William]

I'll add a few theories as to why the two battles aren't often spoken of together:

• I'm sure that Arnhem could have more meaning in England, since Market Garden was Montgomery's baby. Gettysburg might not be studied as intensively by Britain on the flip side of that.
• Arnhem did not have a large impact on the final outcome. The defeat of Germany was inevitable at that point. The AoNVA was never the same after Gettysburg.

Remember that Gettysburg wasn't necessarily the preferred spot of the battle for the Confederates either, but Buford was there so...

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by William

Arnhem only delayed the inevitable. Gettysburg began the inevitable.

True, but the results of Market Garden figure into the Potsdam Conference...ie. who gets what....The strategic initiative also shifts to the Germans who launch the Battle of the Bulge when a successful Market Garden would've toppled Germany in the late fall.

[whitworth]

Many historians start with the battle. But before the battle, Ewell's Corps was separated from Hill and Longstreet's Corps. Ewell had part of his corps up above Carlisle, with some troops near the Susquehanna River. Further south on the Susquehanna, capturing York and Wrightsville was Jubal Early's division.

Lee was with Hill and Longstreet's Corps in the Chambersburg area, west of South Mountain. Without a good knowledge of where the AoP was really headed, Lee took Hill's and Longstreet's corps over the narrow gap road leading from Chambersburg to Gettysburg. He was joined by Johnson' s Division and Ewell's reserve artillery, which at first notice, left their position near Carlisle and marched south on the Chambersburg-Carlisle Pike. The rest of Ewell's Corps marched by another route, east of South Mountain.
Early initially marched west towards Shippensburg, as I recall. It's just the simple idea of forcing a large army up a narrow road, where time proved essential to the results.

Moving east on the Chambersburg-Carlisle Pike was slow. Lee had no other way to cross South Mountain to get to Cashtown and Gettysburg. Lee also found that he had only one certain egress to the west when he entered Adams County. His supply wagons were backed up on the Chambersburg-Gettysburg Pike, just as Montgomery's tanks and vehicles were backed up on the sole road to Arnhem.

Both armies, Confederate and British armour, 30th Corps, found themselves delayed in moving over a single road.
Single roads, in both cases, proved complicated.

[Blockaderunner]

There is one other similarity. While the Confederates did not expect to find Buffords cavalry in Gettysburg, the British did not expect to find Bittrichs panzers in Arnhem.

[mt155]

Gettysburg was not Lee's objective. He was going for Harrisburg and Buford and other circumstances not in his control made Cashtown the place he chose to concentrate his army. Where as Montgomery planned Market Garden with Arnhem as one of his objectives. He knew before the campaign started about the long narrow road. Maybe he too, like Lee over estimated the limits of his troops.

Mike T.

[cw1865]

Yes, he's aiming his army at Harrisburg, but prior to the campaign he points at the map and anticipates a meeting engagement at Gettysburg....