Civil War History - Gettysburg ForumGettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!
Okay, I did a little more digging today and this is what I found. I pulled out Sears' Gettysburg and this is what he said about Reynolds and the whole command issue:
On Reynolds terms: "Reynolds response to the president was that...he "was unwilling to take Burnside's and Hooker's leavings." He wanted assurances there would be no more interference from Washington in the running of the army...There is no record of the form Lincoln's reaction took, but obviously he did not - could not - accept such a bargain. In that case, said Reynolds, he could not accept the command."
On Lincoln's line of thinking in replacing Hooker: "During the conversation, Reynolds seems to have spoken bluntly of Hooker's shortcomings, and have promoted General Meade...for head of the army. Yet there must have been something about Reynold's expressed attitude toward the command [i.e the other generals in the AoP] that it hardened Lincoln's own attitude on the subject. These various generals were going out of their way to condemn Hooker as unfit [something that Meade refused to do], yet not one of them would step up to take his place. Rather than continuing this discouraging search through the seniority list, the president determined, at least for the time being, to stay with Joe Hooker."
Both of these are found on page 41 of Sears' Gettysburg. It seems that once Lincoln found out about all of the back channel talks and backbiting going on in the high command from Reynolds, he had serious second thoughts about replacing Hooker with anybody else. But Reynolds had placed the seed of Meade being a possibility in Lincoln's head, so when he accepted Hooker's resignation, he promoted Meade above all the others.
Its difficult to go over your superior's head and then recommend yourself for your superior's position!
I have a simple question that I have been unable to answer that leads into Gettysburg.
When Meade accepted command of the AoP, he was the sixth man asked.
Who were the other five generals ask to command the AoP but turned it down and why?
I ask the question once before as a post and got no responses. I do know that Reynolds was one of those five general asked before Meade but I do not know why he turned it down or why any of them would turn down a chance at commanding an entire army?
Do not all army officer live to command an army in the field?
Most navy officer, I know live to command a ship and then the fleet?
Hopefully, someone can shed some light on the question.
Poor Reynolds turns down command only to die at Gettysburg. I can't believe Hancock would have turned down command of the AoP?
I am surprised these five generals, who lost out on Glory are not infamous.
You don't think Reynolds or Hancock get their due? Outside of forums such as these people remember Grant, Lee and Lincoln (very few know of Meade)
Its difficult to go over your superior's head and then recommend yourself for your superior's position!
That it is. It makes you look just as bad as the others. But I don't think that is what Reynolds was doing. I think he caught wind of the whole idea of replacing Hooker with himself and went to say that if they wanted him, they would do it on his terms, and if not, he wasn't interested. I don't think there was any plotting on Reynolds part.
As to ole's hijacking ; I would say that there were men who lost out, but they were never offered the position. Lincoln knew of their backbiting Hooker, and he didnt' want that. He may have liked Hancock, but there were others superior and there would have been alot of griping if he had been offered the Army. Meade was a competent choice, though he too was too much of a strategist, and liked maneuver as much as the previous generals. A man like Grant was needed to push the manpower advantage and take the AoNV down.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
As to ole's hijacking; I would say that there were men who lost out, but they were never offered the position. Lincoln knew of their backbiting Hooker, and he didnt' want that. He may have liked Hancock, but there were others superior and there would have been alot of griping if he had been offered the Army. Meade was a competent choice, though he too was too much of a strategist, and liked maneuver as much as the previous generals. A man like Grant was needed to push the manpower advantage and take the AoNV down.
Sounds good to me J Man. That's what I was looking for. Who was actually offered the shot at the saddle? There were many who ought to have been offered it, but Lincoln wasn't particularly interested in who was entitle to it, just in who could fill it.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
On page 126 of Generals in Bronze, Pleasonton tells the artist Kelly that he (Pleasonton) had been offered command of the AOP, but he "refused to pay the price".
Kelly asks what was the price, and Pleasonton tells him:
"The terms offered were these: The war must not be ended until the South was crushed. Slavery abolished. And the president reelected."
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"It was a very peculiar time." - Franklin D. Cossitt
Ancestors in USA Army: 6th IA Inf, 11th IL Cav, 1st AL Cav; 122nd NY Inf; 6th MI Cav; 35th MA Inf; 100th IL Inf; 1st CO Inf/Cav; 22nd IN Inf
On page 126 of Generals in Bronze, Pleasonton tells the artist Kelly that he (Pleasonton) had been offered command of the AOP, but he "refused to pay the price".
Kelly asks what was the price, and Pleasonton tells him:
"The terms offered were these: The war must not be ended until the South was crushed. Slavery abolished. And the president reelected."
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I believe the price was right and so did Grant. "Total War" was born all to reelect old Abe. It is amazing how election motivate our leaders to get the job done.
Pleasanton was ask sometime after Gettysburg.
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
The hardes part of that to believe is that Pleasonton was ever even close to being considered as Hooker's replacement.
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
The hardes part of that to believe is that Pleasonton was ever even close to being considered as Hooker's replacement.
Thats exactly what I was thinking. I had never even heard Pleasonton's name mentioned for command of the AoP in anything that I had read. Probably just his delusions of granduer.
__________________ "The unity of government which constitutes you one people is also now dear to you. It is justly so, for it is a main pillar in the edifice of your real independence, the support of your tranquility at home, your peace abroad; of your safety; of your prosperity; of that very liberty which you so highly prize." George Washington, Farewell Address, 1796
I am reading a book on Gettysburg and Gen. Hooker resign because he and Halleck were bumping heads. He thought it would not be accepted but it was.
The two choices Pres. Lincoln, Gen. Halleck and Sec. Stanton had to chose from were either Gen. Meade or Gen. Sedgwick. As history tells us Gen. Meade was chosen to led the AoP.
An interesting thing here is that Pres. Lincoln had not been planning to replace Gen. Hooker at all.
Gen. Meade complained to the officers that told him he was in command of the army that Gen. Reynolds should have been made commander of the AoP.
__________________
"States Rights are about States Wrongs" - Jesse Jackson
In reading through the Official Reports of the Rebellion, talk about egos and back stabbing and whining -- Pope and McClellan; with Pope whining something fierce to Halleck. Pope was pulling all kinds of 'poor me' correspondences to Halleck.
Now if this was taking place --which seemingly had to be some sort of back room whine and back stab goings on--Hooker wouldn't be the only victim of it.
George Meade was General of the 5th Corps before given the command of the AoP. Although he did mention that Reynolds was better qualified - I think Meade's temperment was better suited to Chief of Staff Halleck--who was a mini-Napoleon. He was good at administration like McClellan but not good at all in field command.
Question to be raised--was Halleck pestering Lincoln for a field command to replace Hooker; Lincoln in knowing Halleck's lack of qualifications in the field--the battles were critical - I am thinking, that Lincoln preferred generals already field tested instead of a desk jockey general - like Halleck. Now, Halleck did finally get a field command afterward but, showed he wasn't suited for field command.
Another thought--could Lincoln be going on gut instinct now. If he had been mislead and kept out of these 'general officer's political loops'--now that Reynolds opened Lincoln's eyes --Lincoln did a 'ah huh'--that makes sense to what has happened in the past --then went with Meade?
As for General Pleasonton; who was chief of Cavalry operations and had replaced General Stoneman; I believe he as very talented but--Cavalry was under rated and under utilized. I am thinking that particular arm of the Army wasn't considered until the likes of Sheridan came about--to be the Union's version of JEB Stuart. But, it is very possible he was considered. How serious the consideration is another matter.
Just some thoughts.
Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
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Difficult 
; I would say that there were men who lost out, but they were never offered the position. Lincoln knew of their backbiting Hooker, and he didnt' want that. He may have liked Hancock, but there were others superior and there would have been alot of griping if he had been offered the Army. Meade was a competent choice, though he too was too much of a strategist, and liked maneuver as much as the previous generals. A man like Grant was needed to push the manpower advantage and take the AoNV down.
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