Who lost Gettysburg

[cw1865]

Before blaming one side for losing you sometimes have to credit the other side for actually winning.

Many of the posts discuss Ewell's failure to move on the first day. Assuming he does and assuming he seizes the hill, the Battle of Gettysburg, as we know it, is over. But that just means the Confederates will have won the 'minor' Battle of Gettysburg, what follows of course is speculation from there.

[J_Man0507]

Trying to blame one person for the Confederate loss at Gettysburg isn't really just. Some blame Stuart, others Ewell, and some even blame Lee. The thing is, placing it on just one person is just a little rash.

My view is that Ewell would have had a tough time taking Cemetery Hill at the end of the first day at Gettysburg. Howard had the prescience to post a good deal of artillery and one of his divisions, less a brigade, on Cemetery Hill when he arrived at Gettysburg earlier in the day. Units had been falling back to the hill after they got pushed back from their earlier positions. The hill wasn't unoccupied. And there were units within supporting distance. As with Stuart, I think that Ewell has also become a scapegoat for the Confederate loss at Gettysburg. He saw that it was getting dark, and he realized that there was a good bit of artillery on that hill, and even if he took it, he would also take a great deal of casualties taking it.

I do put a bit of the blame on Lee. Not all of it, but some of the blame is on his shoulders. Not to say Lee was a bad general; he was brilliant, on par with Napoleon. However, he decided to fight on terrain not of his choosing, and against an enemy who had better ground than him. I don't think his men would have thought they were conceding defeat. I think they would have realized that they were flanking; just like at Chancellorsville.

Credit does need to be given to Meade and the AoP too. They did a superb job defending their ground. Hancock lived up to his nickname and there were many other regimental, brigade and division commanders who did quite well too. Credit must go to them for standing and fighting.

[Dred]

Have we completely ignored Stuart's absence? As stated before it is hard to pin a defeat on one single person, but certainly the loss of Cavalry during the campaign and first 2 days of battle didn not help things very much. Cavalry might not have been as effectiv in the CW as it was prior, but it still had the very important roll of protecting the army with scouts and screening actions. I would like to see how things would turn out if the rebs had a sizeable cavlary unit during the movements beofre the actual battle.

[cw1865]

Lest we forget that Stuart does get there and is engaged on the third day. The Calvary Field at Gettysburg is often overlooked by some visitors, but its definitely part of Lee's plan. At the same time he's trying to pierce the Federal center he's trying to get into their rear too. Stuart doesn't get there. I've never been a big supporter of the 'Its Jeb's fault' thesis.

[Dred]

It just seems to me that if Jeb was around doing the scouting and screening, Lee might have had more time to prepare, and a better idea of where the Feds were. Giving him time to focus the army on ground of his choice and force them to attack instead. Also, he might have been persuaded to go around the hills if he had feelt more confident of what was back there... which Jeb could have done.

[ole]

Don't much buy the idea that JEB had much, if any culpability in the Gettysburg snafu. He was following the orders he was given: to join with Ewell's left. That Lee didn't re-direct the cavalry he had to serve as his eyes, is no reflection on Stuart.

I like the idea that there was no Confederate General who had a good day during the entire invasion. Only the retreat seems to have produced some good moves combined with some good fortune.

Ole

[richard]

It seems that Hood had a very good idea and expressed it to Longstreet in a timely fashion. Maybe Ole is correct in that non of the southern Generals were having good days?

Richard

[cw1865]

Originally Posted by Dred

force them to attack instead.

There is nothing about Gettysburg that compels Lee to actually make an assault. I think he says something to the effect (when Longstreet throws his slip around to the right and get attacked thesis), that 'the enemy is there' and that is where I will attack him.

Originally Posted by Dred

Also, he might have been persuaded to go around the hills if he had feelt more confident of what was back there... which Jeb could have done.

On the 1st day, I agree with you a little, he's not sure exactly when, how and which elements will be arriving at Gettysburg. By Day 2, he knows the majority of the Army of the Potomac is at Gettysburg and by Day 3, both sides are committed to the battle. I think Lee is not inclined to interpose his army between Meade and Washington. At the same time that it puts him between Meade and Washington, it also puts Meade between him and the Blue Ridge Mtns that Lee is using to cover his advance (he also uses the calvary that he does have to cover the mtn passes)

So, if Lee does move to the right around Meade's left and pulls off the maneuver, how exactly does he get out?

[ole]

So, if Lee does move to the right around Meade's left and pulls off the maneuver, how exactly does he get out?

A totally excellent point, cw. We get so enamored of what Lee ought to have done, that we fail to recognize that there wasn't much he could have done except fight where he was or go home.

Lee might have forced Meade to fight on a field he chose, but he would have been doing so without benefit of a supply line (such as it was) or an escape route. Lee was frequently brash, but he wasn't ever (rarely?) foolish. Putting himself between Meade and Washington/Baltimore would have been do or die. He would either win or lose the ANV. That was a risk he didn't take.

The way I see it. He could have engaged Meade on ground of his choosing as Meade had little choice but to engage. However, at his back would have been tens of thousands of Union troops garrisoning Washington. All Meade would have had to do was fix Lee in place and let him be surrounded.

Best Lee could have done after the First Day was to go back home. But, of course, he couldn't do that.

Ole

[larry_cockerham]

Ole wrote:

"Best Lee could have done after the First Day was to go back home. But, of course, he couldn't do that.'

My whiskered friend, your brilliance shows brightly once more. The man who ordered Pickett to charge across an open field into an entrenched, very heavily armed, force on higher ground deserved the stars for this defeat. Had his notion of thrusting through the center of the line worked, perhaps a different albeit more bloody outcome. A move such as his ordered assault, against Longstreet's advice, must have had some force inside telling him to end the battle and the war. To get it over with, regardless of the mess the pallbearers would need to clean up on July 4, may have been a factor of fatigue. Like Hood at Franklin, Lee made a good, but deadly call.