Civil War History - Gettysburg ForumGettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!
Some claim Buford's troops had them, this has been debated. More likely, Custer's troops had and used them to good effect.
Can anyone give us an explanation of the use and effect of these repeaters in the battle of Gettysburg?
Trudeau says Buford's had single shot breach loaders.
Did Custer have superior arms on theE ast side cavalry battle, as was reported?
Custer's "Wolverines" had Spencer Rifles, the Spencer Carbine wasn't in existance yet. Bufords men had a mix of Sharps, Burnside & Smith Carbines w/ Burnside & Sharps being the majority. None of Bufords men had Spencers; there is no debating the fact as the ordanance returns are available.
The Spencer Rifle is not as easily handled from horseback, but when working as dismounted Infantry... yowza.
As to the particulars of the fighting around Gettysburg; I'll leave that to those more learned in the Eastern theatre than I.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
I've read that Buford troops had Sharps breechloading loading carbines. How many I do not know? There was probably always a trooper who carried a shotgun. I've never seen any mention of Buford's troopers having Spencers at Gettysburg.
Some of Custer's regiments had Spencer rifles at Gettysburg. It wasn't until 1864, that the Cavalry bureau attempted to arm most or all its troopers with Spencer carbines.
Well I'd rather have a Spencer rifle on horseback than a single shot muzzleloader. Having ridden horses and reloaded muzzleloaders, separately, I wouldn't want to attempt loading a muzzleloader in battle, as a trooper on horseback.
My understanding was that the Federal cavalry was armed with Sharps carbines. One of those being used by Lt Marcellus Jones to fire the first shot, according to some accounts.
__________________ F. S. Powers
Union Ancersor: Pvt Arnuah Norton, 60th Ohio. (G-G-G Grandfather) Died at Salisbury NC, November 3, 1864
Confederate Ancestors: Captain Thomas A. Morrow, 29th Texas Cavalry (G-G-G- Uncle) and 2LT George W. Morrow, 31st Texas Cavalry (G-G-G Grandfather). Both survived the war
Lt Jones was actually firing Sgt Levi Shafer's Sharps carbine
The ordanance returns are quite clear on who was carrying what and the Spencer Carbine was not on any returns until several monthes after Getysburg.
Sharps Carbines: 4.724 w/ 67 being Sharps & Hankins
Burnside Carbines: 1.387
Smith Carbines: 309
Gallager Carbines: 271
Merril Carbine: 208 Spencer Rifles: 572 w/ the 5th Michigan and E & H Companies of the 6th Michigan.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
Shane's got it right. The carbine wasn't issued until the fall of 1863. Both the rifle and the carbine could use Blakeslee's quick loading cartridge box. This box contained loaded seven shot tubes that could be used very quickly (they loaded on Sunday and shot all week). A couple of regiments of the Michigan Brigade (Custer) used the Spencer rifle at the Battle of Hanover and East Cavalry Field. Some top brass in the Union Army didn't like repeating rifles. They thought they would be a great waste of ammunition. Well, maybe they were right. I've heard that it took 10 bullets fired to kill a man in the Revolutionary War. In Vietnam it was about 100,000 rounds per enemy combatant killed. Any one verify this?
Calicoboy
__________________ My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Well, maybe they were right. I've heard that it took 10 bullets fired to kill a man in the Revolutionary War. In Vietnam it was about 100,000 rounds per enemy combatant killed. Any one verify this?
I read somewhere that 100 pounds of lead was expended for each battlefield death or casualty during the Civil War. I suppose that was derived from the total consumption of lead in the manufacture of bullets divided by the killed or casualties.
The way I figure it, that's about 200 shots per hit. Stretching credibility, for sure, but not totally unbelievable. Anyone have the real number available?
Ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
I just ran into two references that stated the U.S. Military expends 250,000 (!!) rounds for every insurgent they kill in Iraq. The U.S. has actually had to buy small arms rounds from the Israeli Army to keep up the pace. This ain't one man/one rifle anymore. This is A10's spewing 1000's of rounds on every pass (it is pretty spectacular to watch, I must admit). Maybe those Civil War detractors were right. The faster the gun fires, the more one has to shoot.
Calicoboy
__________________ My dear mother:- I have come safely through two more terrible engagements with the enemy, that at South Mountain and the great battle of yesterday (Antietam). Our splendid regiment is almost destroyed. We have had nearly 400 men killed and wounded in the battles. Seven of our officers were shot and three killed in yesterday's battle and nearly 150 men killed and wounded. All from less than 300 engaged. The men have stood like iron....Maj. Rufus Dawes, 6th Wisconsin Volunteers
Alot of that is keeping the other guys head down, grazing fire, indirect fire, plunging etc... then there is the training expenditures.
__________________ Few take the trouble to understand or to view the American scene with perspective. And we Americans love to find ourselves guilty of something. However, it is never I who am guilty, but those other Americans, the past or present government or the other political party. Americans almost never find other countries guilty. It is always ourselves or our fancied influence in other countries. Louis L'amour
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Spencer Carbine at Gettysburg 
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