what about Culp's Hill?

[gary]

Larry, I give a lot of credit to both Chamberlain & Oates. A shirker by nature, I would have shown my backside at the first opportunity (unless I was a Confederate at which I would feigned death and surrendered). My point is that Greene deserves a lot of credit too but he's overshadowed and forgotten by many people.

[nbforrest]

I have to take the same approach to Culp's Hill as I do with Little Round Top: they probably weren't as decisive of points as usually portrayed. Of course this all plays into more than a look at the topography and into a lot of "what ifs". But in short, I just don't think there were enough Confederate troops on the field that day to have a good chance of (assuming one of the aforementioned hills were taken) actually rolling up the Union line. There were just too many Union reserves and Meade wasn't one to panic. In hindsight, I think Lee would have been better off not giving into Ewell and insisting that a portion of Ewell's corps be shifted from the left to the center or right.

That being said, it would be great if more attention were given to Culp's Hill, especially as compared to Little Round Top. Greene and his New Yorkers have certainly gotten more attention in Gettysburg histiography in the past few years but it is safe to say that George Greene does not loom as large in the public imagination as Joshua Chamberlain or even Patrick O'Rourke and Strong Vincent.

[Rad2duhbone53]

Ole;
as of today I have a copy of "Culp'sHill....The attack and defense of the Union Flank; July 2, 1863" by John D. Cox, a guide at Gettysburg. But the first day- theres little info.Yeah, I would like to see this thread take off.

[larry_cockerham]

[quote=gary] I would have shown my backside at the first opportunity (unless I was a Confederate at which I would feigned death and surrendered).

Gary, do I detect a certain "regional" bias here? A yank could have done the same thing? If the 15th AL were coming in my direction, that would have been a definite option. At any rate, let's move back to Culp's hill to the north. I'm eager to learn more.

[ole]

Larry:
Let's hope someone chimes in here. I would help drain the swamp, but ....

IIRC, Culp's Hill wasn't just a battle, it was a 2-day affair. It has all the earmarks of an interesting story with missed opportunities, fubar, snafu (one division or brigade was withdrawn, sent somewhere else, and was lost for an entire night), etc. In the end, it was the stubborn resistance of Greene and his men (with a little help from terrain, entrenchments and breastworks) that kept the very important point from Confederate occupation.

Will try to refresh the aging memory tonight.
Ole

[20thMass]

Greene's brigade does not get enough credit for what they did in the war. After Gettysburg, they would play a big part in the Chattanooga Campaign and the Atlanta Campaign.

[gary]

Larry, I'm a coward and enjoy the warmth and comfort of home and hearth over the singing of minie balls and the dismemberment of my comrades by artillery. War is fun to read and learn about, but it is HELL to be in one. Regardless of which side, I'd skedaddle up north and learn to sing God Save the Queen.

Now, back to Culp's Hill, I recall that Greene didn't really have that many men either when he repulsed the Cornfeds. He certainly deserves more recognition but is largely overlooked because he was modest and didn't care to put himself in the limelight. Kudos to him.

[larry_cockerham]

Looking at my trusty map showing conditions on the afternoon of the 2nd of July, I see Green in the center of the line of defense with the 60, 102, 78, 149, 137 NY flanked on the right by 10 more regiments of boys from PA, NY, CT, NJ and MD under Kane, McDougall and apparently GEARY in command of these guys with Wadsworth signal corps to their left flank. At a distance of about a mile to the north east under JOHNSON'S (CSA) command were five Louisiana regiments under Williams, six Virginia regiments under Grumble Jones and six NC and Virginia regiments under Steauart. At that time and date, these lines were separated by Hanover Road, Benner's Hill and the expanse of Rock Creek.

[larry_cockerham]

Things got a bit warm on July 3. All the Confederate regiments are clustered in the woods on the west side of Rock Creek and on the east face of Culp's Hill trying to kick some yank butt. (Pardon me, I got carried away.) The Union regiments are tightened in a well defensed half circle in their same positions as the day prior. Greene, in the center would have had first and foremost contact with my Virginia cousins under Walker (5, 4, 27 and 33 VA) and the four NC regiments under Daniel (53,45,32 and 43 NC). Unlike Vanderbilt 'football', it appears the defense held.

[ole]

The 62-year-old Greene was an engineer. During the 2nd day, there were four divisions establishing strong defensive positions on both hills. Through a comedy of errors involving Meade, Slocum and Williams, all four were moved out to remedy Sickles' gaffe, leaving Greene's brigade, 3500 strong, of 5 NY regiments. (It was Geary who with his division marched south along the Baltimore Pike and out of that day's fighting.)

When Johnson's 7:OO p.m. attack began, Greene sent to Wadsworth -- First Division, First Corps -- for assistance. Wadsworth sent three regiments: 6th Wisconsin (Iron Brigade) and, From Cutler's Brigade, the 14th Brooklyn and 147th New York. Howard (11th Corps) sent four of Schimmelfennig's Brigade's five regiments (Shurz's Division): 61st Ohio, 157th New York, 82nd Illinois and 45th New York; the former two led by a 1st Corps staff officer and the latter by an officer on Shurz's staff.

These extra seven regiments certainly helped Greene's Brigade, but it does look like Greene could have stood the attack alone. The dark, the terrain, and the defensive embattlements were too great to overcome.

More later.
Ole