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Through some very hard work by both Condon and I, we have accumilated a considerable list of union flags from not only the battle, but form the campaign itself. Does anyone here have information on the 157th New York to contradict the information we have recieved about losing both of it's colors?
On the night of July 2nd, 1863, near Culp's Hill, a party consisting of the 157th New York and the 61st Ohio got lost in the dark and wandered into the rebel lines, where they were fired upon. The 61st was ordered to withdraw and the 157th followed.
When they were out of range, it was discovered that the colors were missing - the color-bearer had been wounded. One officer (Captain Place) and two privates, believing that they had been the victims of friendly fire, went back to find the flag, and were captured.
The depleted 157th was withdrawn from the front, and placed on provost duty.
great rad2duhbone53. However, I believe condon had already uncovered this. Then again, it could prove most useful if you can identify which flag it was, seeing as how new york regiments carried two stands, a national and regimental. Also, last time we went to visit a 157th New York site, they denied having lost their flags, hmmm, must have found a different place. Great work.
Texaswildcat; I have another response from a messageboard primarily on Civil War flags.Heres the response regarding the 157th
I would like to know also. What I have learned is that twosources, Michael Dreese in his "Never Desert the Old Flag" and Harry Pfanz in his "Culp's Hill and Cemetery Hill"stae that the flag of the 157th was captured, "probably" or "apparently," by Thomas J. Betterton ofthe 37th Va. of Steuart's Brigade of Johnson's Division during the fighting on Culp's Hill on July 2. I have not been able to figure out why they both qualify their statements. Both accounts state that the color bearer was killed but do not identify the color bearer. There is a book, "A Regiment Remembered" by William Saxton which I do not have access to which is about the 157th. I have written the historian at the Cortland County(NY) Historical Society for information but have never heard anything from her. (The Society published the book and was the home county for the 157th).I have also corresponded with Christopher Morton, the curator of flags at the NY Militia Museum. He advises that they have 3 flags of the 157th, 2 national and 1 regimental. Unfortunately, all 3flags arrived at the museum with "no history." He did advise that the museum had a newspaper clipping in its files believed to be from the Homer, NY "Republican."It is a private letter from Charles Paddock,1st Sgt., Co.C, 157th NY. In the letter, Sgt. Paddock describes the fighting on July 1, and mentions that, "There were but six men of my Co. left including officers. The Col. was there andthe colors all right." Paddock was captured that day but does mention in the letterthat, "The last I saw of Col. Brown, he was going up the street with the colors by his side as fast as possible." The reason I mention this passage is because another researcher I have corresponded with has the hypothesis that the 157th lost a flag to a Georgia regiment on the first day. But he admits that if you interpret Paddock's use of the word "colors" to mean both flags then it appears that they both made it into Gettysburg and neither were captured.Of course, that is assuming that the 157th had two flags at Gettysburg.
Its amazing how one thrread from either here or another messageboard can come out of the blue (or should I say gray)
Very nice, you did a lot of work on this. In the report, Steuart states that a "united states flag" was captured and i think it was the national colors, not the state. still it was great on your part to come through on this, we believe that the regiment had two colors.
I do know that the state flag of the 104th New York, Wadsworth Guards was captured on July 1st along with a 1st Corps banner, but there has to be more
I'd be very interested in whatever information you have concerning the capture at Gettysburg of the flag of the 104th New York Infantry, and precisely what flag you are referring to.
Hello everyone, I am new on this board and very happy to see other people that are interested in Union flags captured at Gettysburg. Confederate flags captured at Gettysburg have been well documented. There are many that have not been identified still to this day.
My mission is to come out with a book called "Captured Battleflags During the Civil War"
This project is going to take a very long time.
So far this is what I know of Union flags that were captured at Gettysburg.
Perrin's Sc Brigade said they took 4 flags. One of those flags was a small flag and the man that took that was killed 2 days later and it was found folded up in his uniform. They captured the 149th State flag, Reynold's 1st Corps Headquarters flag and the last flag I am not sure of yet.
150th Pa's flag was captured by a Nc regiment in the streets of Gettysburg on the retreat. This is the flag that was found among President Davis's personal effects when he was captured at the end of the war.
After the 2nd Ms lost their flag and many of their men, elements of the 2nd Ms and 42nd Ms captured the 149th Pa's National flag but somehow this flag ended up in the 55th Virginia's hands (Brockenbrough's Brigade). Brockenbrough's Brigades claims to have captured 2 Union flags, I am thinking that the 149th's National Flag is one of them. The other flag they captured, I have not figured out yet.
The 104th Ny's National flag was captured and the State flag was saved. ( I have read in the book "Gettysburg July 1st" by David G. Martin that the 104th Ny tore up their National flag. But was found by Ramsuer's men.
The 119th Ny lost their flag on Day 1. It was "left on the field" I dont know if it was the state or National flag. The 13th Ga took this flag.
It is true that the 157th Ny (that lost 75% on Day 1) did lose their flag on Day 2 east of Culp's Hill. BG.Stuart launched a night attack and the 37th Virginia captured it. (Brigades at Gettysburg, by B.M Gottfried, page 340)
3rd Maine's national flag was captured.
BG.Wofford claims to have captured 3 flags. 2 by the Phillip's Legion and 1 by Cobb's Legion and one flag that was "almost captured" I know that the 4th Michigan, 11th US and the 62nd Pa's National flag were captured in the Wheatfield.
75th Ohio lost their National flag on day 2 by Hay's brigade during the "night attack" I am thinking the 8th La took it. The 8th La lost their flag as well. Hays claims to have captured 4 flags. Seeing that the 25th Ohio and 75th Ohio broke on Hay's attack I assume maybe the 25th Ohio might have lost a flag.
26th Wisconsin lost thier State flag on Day 1 either the 12th or 44th Ga took it.
157th Ny lost their national flag to the 12th Ga on day 1. (This is the most talked about flag on day 1) seeing that the 157th Ny lost their State flag on day 2. (This is a tuff one to prove that they lost their National flag on day 1). The 12th/44th Ga claims to have captured a flag and they fought against the 157th Ny.
The 141st Pa of Graham's Brigade, Birney's Division, 3rd Corps, lost a flag. The OR report of the 141st Pa said "Corporal Berry carried the colors and was shot 3 times and refused to give up the flag, untill shot a 4th time and the had to yield the flag." The 141st Pa started the battle with 200 men they lost 149 men. I dont know which flag was captured (State or National).
So far the count is up to 18 Union flags captured at Gettysburg. I'm sure there is another 10-15 more.
---Flags NOT captured that seemed they would have.----
The 134th Ny and 154th Ny fought in the "Brick Yard" Coster's Brigade. They were hit very hard but did NOT lose any flags. This is what happaned, The 154th Ny state flag made it out (after many men were shot holding it), The 154th Ny National flag was found on the ground and rescued by a member of the 134th Ny. --Source (NYG, Page 1055 note.)
Meanwhile the one color bearer of the 134th Ny had to hold both of his unit's flags when the rest of the color guard was felled. He saw that he was being surrounded and ripped off both flags and tucked them in his uniform. He was captured but the Confederates did not find the flags. He was held as a prisoner for 4 days only.
I think the 134th Ny had two state flags because the 134th National flag was saved by Captain Matthew B. Cheney of Company G, 154th Ny who thought that was his unit's flag. He was badly wounded but managed to get the flag to safety. ---Source (NYG, Page 1055 note)
The 154th Ny only had 1 man killed and 21 wounded, 178 were captured. Out of 239 men, 200 had been "Killed, Wounded and Captured". "The highest percentage casualty rate of any Union unit in the battle (83.7%).
More flags, I'm not 100% sure they were captured.
19th Indiana (regimental colors) Sgt. Major Blanchard took the flag and wrapped it around his himself and under his sword belt. He was shot in the groin and was captured. I have no reports that the 19th Indiana's National flag made it out safe.
The best source is the "1888 copy of the war department captured flags at Gettysburg". I have not viewed this yet but I am going to find it.
Its Ironic that the Union kept better records of Confederate flags they captured but hardly admit to the flags they lost.
If anyone has ANY information, please help out!! I diffenitly want to join you on this long search and help out in any way that I can.
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