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Civil War History - Gettysburg Forum Gettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!

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  #41  
Old 03-22-2008, 10:45 AM
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Default Shoes, Myth or Fact at Gettysburg

It is most likely that, due to the lack of cavalry, Pettigrew's Brigade was performing the function of a scouting force to check the the most obvious location, (Gettysburg) where Union forces might be expected to appear; or perhaps to establish contact with Ewell's Corps known to falling back to concentrate with Lee at Cashtown.
On the 3oth, Pettigrew immediately withdraws, almost at first contact, with Bufords vendettes. Pettigrew immediately reports his contact with Union Cavalry and Heth informs Gen. Hill that he intends to investigate the situation further. The next day, Heth sends his whole division to press the Union lines to find it's strength and exact location. Which, of course, brings on the Battle of Gettysburg.
To me, Pettigrew was, probably, fulfilling the mission of Lee's missing (or unavailable) cavalry.
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  #42  
Old 03-22-2008, 10:53 AM
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Default I think "shoes" was a code word

used by Heth to make future readers of his OR think of why his division was even in the lead and why it was going to Gettysburg on the Chambersburg-Gettysburg Pike.

Of course, their were no shoes in Gettysburg, amounting to any number for even a division of troops. Anyone who does a study of the manufacture of shoes, at the time, in the United States knows shoes were not made in Gettysburg by modern manufacturing.

How was Heth going to discover a Union cavalry unit at Gettysburg? Not until his division marched up to Gettysburg. He had no cavalry screen to detect Buford's cavalry division.

Lee had made several mistakes and how could Heth blame Lee in his OR. Certainly Lee's army lacked shoes, but his army marching into Gettysburg lacked cavalry. Lee had too little cavalry in Pennsylvania, and hadn't expected Stuart's to get blocked in Virginia. Most of the cavalry in PA was assigned to Ewell and Early to use as a screen as they marched deeper into Pennsylvania.

It was as much folly to go to Gettysburg looking for "shoes", as it was to not have a cavalry screen for two corps marching to Gettysburg. But the "historians" argue over shoes and never see the lack of cavalry as a factor in running into Buford at Gettysburg.

Unfortunately, Gen. R.E. Lee could not be blamed. And the consequences of Gettysburg is Lee's fault. His greatest fault was taking two corps and more over one narrow turnpike to Gettysburg. And who was in the lead into Gettysburg. Heth !

The problem is one never heads infantry into the unknown without cavalry scouts checking for the enemy. And that mistake would cost Lee and his army. The ANV failed to get to Gettysburg first.

Last edited by whitworth : 03-22-2008 at 11:00 AM.
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  #43  
Old 03-22-2008, 03:39 PM
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Default Lee?

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Originally Posted by whitworth View Post
Of course, their were no shoes in Gettysburg, amounting to any number for even a division of troops. Anyone who does a study of the manufacture of shoes, at the time, in the United States knows shoes were not made in Gettysburg by modern manufacturing.
I would suggest that is of no consequence. First off, even if Heth doesn't really think he'll find shoes (ie. its just a rumor), Gettysburg is still Gettysburg and within Gettysburg will be SOMETHING of value, ie. horseshoes, food, clothing, whatever humans require to live in a town.

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How was Heth going to discover a Union cavalry unit at Gettysburg? Not until his division marched up to Gettysburg. He had no cavalry screen to detect Buford's cavalry division.
I don't think he was expecting Buford to be there. Early had passed through earlier.

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It was as much folly to go to Gettysburg looking for "shoes", as it was to not have a cavalry screen for two corps marching to Gettysburg. But the "historians" argue over shoes and never see the lack of cavalry as a factor in running into Buford at Gettysburg.
This is a good point. However, Heth was specifically ordered to Cashtown, the lack of calvary shouldn't cause the collision, its still Heth's initiative that causes it.

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Unfortunately, Gen. R.E. Lee could not be blamed. And the consequences of Gettysburg is Lee's fault. His greatest fault was taking two corps and more over one narrow turnpike to Gettysburg.
At the end of the day Lee gets to Gettysburg with the 'mostest' - Day 1 clearly goes to the Confederates, albeit not fully (Ewell)

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And who was in the lead into Gettysburg. Heth !
The big question is why he doesn't disengage.
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  #44  
Old 03-23-2008, 09:06 PM
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Dear cw1865,

It is only my opinion, that the reason why General Heth did not disengage was due in part that he had no control over his officers and men. It is known that that General Lee wanted to wait for all of the army to be assembled before a major conflict however, when you listen to the excuses General Heth gave General Lee, in the movie Gettysburg; the 'practice' and re-enforced philosophy by Lee --never leave the field to the enemy; compelled probably by the urgings of his officers and men, with confidence--to 'reply' to the cavalry if found, belonging to General Buford. When 'disengagement' is discouraged by General Lee himself--he is the 'example.' Prior to Gettysburg, they never really had to 'disengage' and or 'retreat through defeat or loss.'

Even up to the charge by General Pickett's three divisions and six others joined in -- a total of nine divisions thrust on the Union side--was for naught that day. The Confederates didn't see how much the Union 'grew up' and 'matured.'

I think the whole three days were put into sequential motion, to which the out come we all know in hind sight.

In addition, General Early 'dismissed' General Heth's reports of seeing cavalry in the vicinity. General Heth, not a 'West Pointer' was not always given credit by General Early, who was from 'West Point' and a professional soldier.

That said, on both sides--civilian based volunteer officers really didn't get the same respect as professional military officers and men. However, there were plenty of common sense in those officers from the volunteers of both Armies. At Appomattox--it would be two non-"West Pointers" at the formal "Surrender of Arms." General Gordon and General Chamberlain.

IF, and I will repeat -- "IF" General Lee would have disengaged as General Longstreet had suggested, as to cause the Union forces to move off from the comfortable 'high ground' --then move into more favored 'tactical' ground--perhaps General Lee would not have learned a terrible and bloody lesson. That is, nobody 'knows it all, no matter if they know a lot.'

Just some thoughts.

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
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  #45  
Old 03-24-2008, 11:32 AM
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Default Shoes, Myth or Fact at Gettysburg

Part of Lee's problem is that he is trying to concentrate his army in a too restricted area. At Cashtown, his back is is on the Cashtwon Gap, which is his supply line and possible line of retreat; if he loses a battle around Cashtown, he is in danger of losing everthing.
From Lee's map, Gettysburg, needs to be occupied, to both keep the advancing AoP at bay while the ANV concentrates And provide a more defensible position from which to defend his supply line through Cashtown.
Although hesitant to bring on a general engagement, Lee had usually been well served by the aggressive interpretation of his orders before and due to the lack of cavalry, Heth is taking the correct military action. A report of Union Cavalry less than eight miles from Cashtown, certainly warrants immediate attention.
Pettigrew, performing the function of cavalry has reported Union forces, nearby, it is up to Heth, the closest to the point of contact, sees that determining if the Union units are an immediate threat or not is vital, to Lee's making adequate plans.
It was axiomatic during the CW that cavalry could not hold back infantry and while steadily pushing Buford's cav. division back, he suddently meets AoP infantry and while still determining the strengh and position of the Union opposition Ewell suddently appears then Howards Corps and before you know it and full scale battle with major units from both armies is in progress.
Getting reports from Heth, Hill and Ewell, Lee still has the option of disengaging and falling back to the Cashtwon area (which he recognizes as dangerous) of continue the unforseen (but anticipated) climactic battle.
As always, Lee is the center of events both for success and disaster.
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  #46  
Old 03-30-2008, 07:18 AM
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Default Heth went to Gettysburg

because the Confederacy had to gain the crossroads. And Heth had to do it without adequate cavalry screening his movement.
Once Lee crossed a corps over the South Mountain from Chambersburg, and he had to do it a regiment at a time, Gettysburg had to be captured. It was a military necessity.
Getting bottled up in front of Gettysburg was not good strategy.

Shoes were not manufactured in Gettysburg. Gettysburg was one of the last places in North America, where a modern shoe factory would be located. Manufactured shoes could have been ordered by telegram to and from Philadelphia, with necessary shoe shipments coming by train from New England.
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  #47  
Old 03-30-2008, 04:30 PM
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because the Confederacy had to gain the crossroads.
But then you would write 'I engaged Buford's cavalry to secure the crossroads at Gettysburg' - a military necessity...but he wasn't ordered to secure that crossroads, he was ordered to Cashtown

Being a poorly shod army, the Confederates should always be on the lookout for shoes, I don't think we should be interpreting Heth's actions as being an honest belief that he was going to find a shoe factory, just that Gettysburg was a town and in towns are things of value to an army, and that the Confederates would be especially on the lookout for ANY quantity of shoes.

The fact that no shoes exist in Gettysburg is of no consequence. That is the epitome of irony. Heth just doesn't possess 'perfect' information

Frankly, I don't see why Heth going to Gettysburg for a 'look-see' is so problematic to historians.
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  #48  
Old 03-30-2008, 11:08 PM
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Heth: "Thar may be shoes beyond them hills, advance on the double."
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  #49  
Old 03-31-2008, 11:25 AM
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Default Shoes, Myth or Fact at Gettysburg

The strategic advantages of Gettysburg, was Lee's responsibility. Heth was investigating Pettigrew's contact with what would appear to be a Union Cavalry screen (approx. 8 miles from Cashtown) Was this force screening a larger force of cavalry or major units of the AoP? It might be well to find out and the quicker the better.
Heth was not trying to bring on a major battle, just exercising normal initiative to clarify a developing situation.
When Lee learns of the developing battle, he moves aggressively forward and reinforces the accidental tactical advantages his forces was in the process of securing. The battle was sooner than he had planned for, but it was in the area that he had probably already projected as necessary to continue his campaign in Pa.
Reference to a Time Line and a Map, indicates that the only 'accident' that a battle was fought at Gettysburg, was it's timing.
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  #50  
Old 03-31-2008, 01:41 PM
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And lest we forget, even with the timing of the battle as it did occur, Lee arguably won (or at the very least came close to winning) the first and second days of the battle. Granted, he wanted to concentrate his army before the fight, but as it happened, he almost won a resounding victory on the first day by having his army converge on the enemy from two different directions.
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