Weeds at Devil's Den

[8thvacav]

That was good info Ole. Something I noticed when I was that dumb kid writing on my arm with the poison ivy oil is that if you drop a leaf in the water, it would move like a motor boat. I guess the oil coming out of the water propelled it. It didn't move fast but it did move. I did all this setting on a culvert over a little stream. Just rambling.
Martin

[ole]

Don't apologize, Martin, I spent a good many youthful hours sitting on culverts myself.
Ole

[maryingettysburg]

Seems I've been lucky to not have run into the Ivy in all my twice weekly biking and hiking treks. I've been attacked by brigades of ticks though.....if you take Tom's advice and walk through the fields, take a can or two of tick spray. YOU'RE GOING TO NEED IT. also, watch out for snakes. Don't know how common copperheads are on the battlefield, but my family and I had an encounter with a Northern Timber Rattlesnake on our way to Spangler's spring. So, keep your heads down, make alot of noise,.....and for the Lord's sake, stay away from those rock walls. Take the poisonous snake threat seriously, they are out there. Best source of info on PA's poisonous snakes in the ER waiting room at the hospital. They have a pamphlet of all you ever wanted to know about the snakes.

Y'all will be happy to know the NPS has it's people doing major mowing and weed chopping. Went to my favorite rock yesterday, and it was totally cleared of weeds. And they've mowed trails through the fields to all the monuments.....

[tomh]

maryingettysburg,

That is the first time that I have heard that anyone has encountered a poisonous snake on the battlefield, and you certainly have my attention. I am a confirmed "snake magnet" and snakes will cross county lines to come visit me, but so far I have only run into non-poisonous varieties on the park.

Twice I have run into 6 foot plus PA Black Racers, once on the path from Devil's Den to Elephant Rock and once on the lane leading to the Rose farmhouse. The one near the den was about to cross the same path that I was on and I nearly stepped on his head in passing. I could see more than three feet of him and the part that I could see was still getting wider so it was less than half his full length. The other actually lept out of the field to the south of the Rose Farm lane, landed in the lane with an audible thud, and, after checking out my wife and me for a few seconds, decided to take off across the field to the north. I realized at that moment why they are called racers, he moved so fast through the field that I don't think I could have caught him with my jeep!

Last year there was an older gentleman in Shippensburg that was bitten by an immature copperhead, but it was my understanding that they are usually confined to the mountains north of route 30, west of town. Northern/Eastern Rattlers have been reported in the same mountain range but south of Route 30 and this is the first report that I have heard of one being on the park.

Thanks,
TomH

[VS on the belt plate]

Did you know that Copperheads and Timber rattlers will co-habitate in the same den ? Scary.

A lot of times folks misidentify snakes especially copperheads. In 25 years of camping in the East I've only seen non-poisonous snakes.

VS...etc

[maryingettysburg]

Tom,
I also ran into a black racer in the Den. At least, I am supposing it was a black racer. The Northern Timbers can be mostly and even sometimes ALL black, which makes their markings, also black, very hard to see unless in bright sunlight. I've become somewhat of an info glutton on BOTH types of native PA rattlesnakes since my run in with one. TheNorthern Timbers are on the list of "endangered" snakes in PA, and are somewhat rare. They are protected by the PA wildlife protection laws, due to their threatened existence. I guess I got lucky and unlucky both at the same time in having seen a rattler, whichever one it was. We almost got bit by it, which is more frightening than you realize. There is an anti venin, but it is very dangerous also, and can cause fatal allergic reactions more frequently than considered safe. I got this from a pamphlet I read that the Gettysburg Hospital puts in their ER waiting room on poisonous snakes in this area.
We saw this rattlesnake behind the old Keefauver school late one evening, as dusk was falling. My son and daughter were playing soccer behind the school. It came up from the hill on the side of the school, where there is a wooded area, and slithered across the blacktop area of the old Kindergarten playground. My husband saw it and reached to pick it up, thinking it was a black snake, and show the kids. I grabbed his arm when it was within inches of the snake and shouted at him "NO". It was an instant reaction, and I had no idea why this snake upset me so. He argued with me briefly about how it was only a blacksnake, while I tried to defend my premonition that this snake shouldnt be picked up. At that point, It then slithered into a patch of blacktop that was illuminated by the small spotlight at the playground area, and we saw that it wasn't black completely. It had markings. THEN my husband wasn't in such a hurry to pick it up. We foolishly got closer to see these markings, which is indeed foolish as rattlers have varying, but surprising strike ranges. It was then it rattled at us, two times.....even though neither had heard that sound before, it instinctively chills you to your bones. We backed off....fast. He told the guys at work, and they all thought he was drunk, as they said there are no rattlesnakes in PA. No one believed me either...they said the same thing. It was just by chance that I picked up that pamphlet on PA's poisonous snakes while in the ER waiting room at the hospital 2 months later.


I got this from a website on PA snakes regarding the color of Timbers:

"Two color patterns are commonly found: a yellow phase, which has black or dark brown crossbands on a lighter background color of yellow, brown or gray, and a black phase, which has dark crossbands on a dark background. Black or dark brown stippling also occurs to varying degrees, to the extent that some individuals appear all black."

There is SECOND rattlesnake native to PA called the Eastern Massasauga. I am not certain which rattler we did see as this one fits the description also. From a website by :

Bruce Kingsbury, Director

Center for Reptile and Amphibian Conservation and ManagementScience Building
Indiana-Purdue University
" The massasauga can also be black or nearly so (melanistic) in some geographic locations"

"Distribution and Status
The massasauga is found in the province of Ontario, Canada, and across the Midwest and eastward into the following ten states: New York, Pennsylvania, Ohio, Michigan, Indiana, Illinois, Wisconsin, Minnesota, Iowa, and Missouri. "


Both rattlers can appear mostly or even totally black. So, when next any of you see a blacksnake whilst out on the field, PLEASE be cautious as it MAY not be a blacksnake at all. Don't wait till you hear the rattle, then wish you had gone the other way. And just because you folks haven't been "lucky" enough to run into one, do not let that make you nonchalant or disbelieving. They are out there, and if you ever DO run into one, it's good to know the above info.

The bites of both snakes are serious and deadly, though happily rare. Unless you confront them, as my husband was about to do, they do not like to waste their precious and costly to manufacture venom on you....you're too big to eat.

Check out the black massasauga shown on the above mentioned webpage!!!!!

[tomh]

maryingettysburg,

Thanks for the info and for recounting the details about your encounter. I knew that there are two rattlesnake subspecies native to PA but thought that the massasagua was only found in northwestern PA, generally in wetter lowlands. I did not, however, know that both rattlers native to PA had a "Black" season.

I lived in Houston for ten years and, as a forensic photographer, frequently found myself in areas populated by rattlesnakes. I know exactly what you mean about the sound. I had never heard one, except for the holly-wierd interpretations, but the first time that I did run into one I immediately knew what it was. It seemed like some sort of Jungian collective-memory thing, I heard the buzz (behind me in tall grass) and instantly all defensive systems went into full alert <grin>. Being a tried-and-true city boy, and totally unfamiliar with snakes (except the two legged variety) I did exactly the opposite of what the snake experts tell you to do. I ran like a frightened schoolgirl <grin>.

From now on if you run into someone walking through the woods on culp's hill, wearing heavy jeans and knee high boots, swinging a long stick, loudly stamping his feet and singing or whistling like the town idiot ... it'll probably be me.

TomH

[VS on the belt plate]

I guess I can afford to be cavalier about snakes as in my business I am called,on occasion,to remove one from a place it isnt suppose to be. I could tell almost instantly if it is a viper or not.

(All poisonous snakes native to the US are 'pit' vipers....except for the Coral snakes)

Laymen can't tell the difference and should indeed be watchful in undeveloped areas during summertime visits.

I think its unlikely to enounter a viper,however,and should'nt distract one's enjoyment of this great and hallowed battlefield.


The Whacking Day Mess

(VS...etc)

[maryingettysburg]

Never did I say it should distract your enjoyment of this ground or any other!!!!!!! All I stated was that it is wise to keep your eyes open for our slithering friends when walking off the beaten path and into their territory.

ahhh, the joys of message boards... to have people REITERATE something that you never said in the first place.

It always amazes me how a simple subject like the FACT that there are poisonous snakes on the battlefield, as well as ticks, can make SOME people defensive...like you've just let loose a string of blasphemous curses, or as if YOU are the one that put them there, or that you are desecrating holy ground for stating that they ARE there....

statements like his having removed snakes, therefore he knows all about them is nice to know. I thank him for it, though I've removed ticks from my family and STILL don't know much about them, cept that I dont want them on me.

Running into a rattler is indeed a rare occurance, NOT because they are not out there, but because of their natural inclination to avoid humans at all costs.

Well, at least Tom was the soul of diplomacy.

[ole]

The upshot might be that if the bugger has a triangular head, don't think, move away. The chances of an encounter are slim, as the snake wants nothing to do with you. Keep your eyes down and don't step on it. That tends to irritate it and will lead to a bite, whether toxic or not.

I have no doubt that there are rattlers on the battlefield. It is safe for them there. I'm reminded of a visit to the Little Big Horn battlefield where the ranger's advice was, "Stay on the path. Watch your feet. Keep your ears open. If you hear a buzz, stop. Assess the situation and act accordingly." Problem is, my old ears do not hear the buzz -- it's in the wrong range.

Maryingettysburg has the proper attitude: If you're very, very lucky, you might see one. Don't let it get to you, but don't let the little 'uns run through the grass off the path.