Berst weapons of the ACW.

[spudee]

G'day all,

Pure and simple. What were the best weapons (infantry & arty.) of the ACW and why? And secondly, were swords used much, particularly by cavalry?

Regards from down under,
Brian T

Arty.
The 10-pdr Parrott rifles were I guess, the best long range artillery.
The Napoleon, a smoothbore, muzzle-loading, 12-pounder was good up close.

Artillery if I recall accounted for about 05% of all causalities. Most of those from canister. Artillery was used to break up formations of troops both in attacking and defending.

Rifles.
The .58 caliber Springfield or 69 caliber Harpers Ferry Rifle were extremely common weapons and firing a Minie ball was a deadly weapon.

The Spencer carbine, a seven shot .52 caliber or the Henry 15 shot .44 caliber were probably the best rifles of the war in terms of firepower but in the hands of untrained troops they would be out of ammunition very quickly.

My guess is the best compromise was the .52 caliber 1859 Sharps.


The best rifle I’d think would have been the Whitworth. It's long range precision was the best of all weapons used in the war. When the telescopic sight was used, the rifle had an effective range of about 1,800 yards. This rifle, as with the cannon which the English company also made, had a hexagonal bore which required a hexagonal bullet. Both sides called this bullet a "bolt". In fact, it was a six-sided bolt from a Rebel sharpshooter that killed Union General "Uncle John" Sedgwick during the fighting at Spotsylvania Court House just after he had remarked to a frightened soldier that Confederate sharpshooters could not hit an elephant. His statement makes just about all of the famous last words list.

Revolvers.
As for side arms it would been hard to beat the French LeMat revolver. It had two barrels. A cylinder which held nine .40 caliber rounds fired through the upper barrel and revolved around the lower .63 caliber barrel which held a charge of buck-shot. Nine .40 caliber bullets and a sawed off shotgun all-in-one. Really sweet. But hard to get one.

The Starr double action .44 was nice as it fired a combustible cartridge, but could also be loaded with loose powder and ball if need be.

Edged weapons.
In “Regimental Losses” Fox points out that of the approximately 250,000 wounded treated in Union hospitals during the war only 922 were the victims of sabers or bayonets. By far small arms and disease killed the most soldiers


A sword was a legitimate weapon in the hands of a trained cavalryman but they’d more than likely end up lopping off the ears of the riders horse in most hands. Cavalry preferred pistols, breech loading or repeating rifles and the ever popular sawed off shotgun. Swords by infantry were mostly for officers and just to point with.



I hope this helps.

YMOS
tommy

(Message edited by aphillbilly on November 18, 2003)

[johan_steele]

You've asked a question that will get you some interesting answers, for pure effectiveness as an Infantry Weapon the M1859 Sharps in .54 (the .52 was a civilian model that did see some service but it was less common) was an outstanding weapon w/ few if any equals in accuracy or dependability. The Spencer was a robust & well liked rifle & carbine, though it's cartridge was notorious for poor stopping power. The Henry was certainly the most technologically advanced weapon of the time but it suffered w/ the same problem as the Spencer. At much past 100 yards neither the Spencer or Henry were very effective... Though the sheer volume of firepower they could generate was mind boggling for the time.

The most important thing to remember though is that the man made the rifle, not the other way around. While the Sharps was an excellent rifle, there just weren't that many of them. The Springfiled & Enfield were the killers of the time, w/ .58 minnie balls fired from them doing the lions share of killing.

THere is of coarse quite a bit of argument as to which was better: Springfield or Enfield... it's a tough question to answer as both had comparable accuracy, knock down power & reliability. It's generally argued that the sites on an Enfield are Superior to those on a Springfield but the Springfiled seemed to handle field use better and benefited from FAR superior quality control at the production line. Having fired repro's of both and an original Springfield... I'd say they handle the same w/ the differences being so minor as to make it all but impossible to decide on which is the superior model.

Aphillbilly mentions the Whitworth... while it was quite accurate there were so few of them that their contribution was quite minor. Another rifle of the same vein was the Kerr, actually a more accurate and longer ranged weapon than the Whitworth, and considerably rarer. A period Kerr might easily fetch $100,000 today. (Actually Aphillbilly there is quite a bit of argument still as to if the bullet that killed Sedgwick was a from a Whitworth. I've seen convincing arguments both ways and have to admit I don't know on that score. Regardless, it was one hell of a shot, better than 700 yards.)

Both were hideously expensive, a Whitworth costing the CSA $1000 a piece while a P1858 or 53 Enfield was less than $15... There are reasonable arguments that the Whitworth was not really any more effective than the standard Enfield.

As to the age old argument between the 10 pdr Parrot & the 3" Ordinance Rifle.... The Parrot had a tendency to burst in front of the reinforcing band and the 3" Rifle was all together simpler to make and cheaper IIRC as well as having the same accuracy. Frankly, I think their performance was pretty much the same, though the 3" Rifle could push a bolt an extra fifty or so yards. The accuracy that those two cannon could accomplish is really quite frightening. There are stories of a Union Gunner w/ a 3" Rifle picking out individual flag bearers and hitting them... at better than 1300 yards. The casualty numbers from Cannon are very misleading, loaded w/ Canister a Napoleon was as terrifying a weapon as they came. At Fredricksburg Cannon did the lions share of the killing. It was a massive psych weapon... If you've ever been on a re-enactment field you'll understand what I mean... modern re-enactors actually are allowed to use only about a half charge of powder.

The LeMat was an excellent weapon (J.E.B. Stuart carried two on his horses pommel), but it's weight made it very unpopular. The various Colts were quite popular & had a steller reputation but those that carried them swore by the Remington New Model Army. Having live fired all of them I favor the Remington, I didn't care for the balance of the LeMat, though I could appreciate the added firepower.

THe bayonet was more of a psych weapon as well w/ only a few bayonet charges really being effective... though those succesful ones are quite impressive... 1st MN & 20th Maine at Gettysburg, John Kings Regulars at Chickamaugua. THough it's much easier to come up w/ terrifying slaughters because of bayonet charges. Frankly, the CW rifle makes a better club than a spear.

As to swords, very few were sharpened at all, though there are some notable exceptions. The cav sabre was used more for a club to break the coller bone or the neck of a man as you rode past him. Shooting accurately from a moving horse is easier said than done, which is why it wasn't often done. By the end of the war Cav was being used more as mounted Infantry than in traditional Cav charges. Cav's effectiveness as recon was too valuable to use them as Mounted Infantry... though again there were notable exceptions.

To add to Aphillbilly's point about disease, a man was three times more likely to succumb to disease than to an enemy bullet. Dysentery being one of the biggest killers.

That's my take on the issue... for an excellent book on the firearms of the time I strongly suggest Edwards, William B., "Civil War Guns," The Stackpole Company, 1962. It's in it's third or fourth printing now, runs about $45 but is well worth the investment... it's one of the few books I keep by my side religiously.

[gary]

Best sharpshooter weapon - scoped Whitworth. About the weight of the rifled musket, it was portable and didn't require special carriage unlike the heavy 20-30 lb scoped rifles carried by some of Berdan's Sharpshooters (or other units). Accurate at half a mile, it could be used for longer range harassment fire too.

Best infantry weapon - Spencer. while capacity was less than the Henry, the Spencer had an enclosed magazine that wouldn't get dirty like the Henry. It was also faster to load if one had the Blakeslee box. The cartridges had to be introduced into the Henry magazine one at a time.

Best infantry rifled-musket - Enfield of course. choice of the Confederate sharpshooter. Better than the Springfield past 500 yards.

Best Revolver - LeMat for the same reasons explained by Shain.

Best cannon - certainly not the 12 pdr Mountain howitzer or the 6 pdr cannon (too small). The Whitworth cannon had the longest range and was very accurate, but I'm unsure as to whether it had cannister, grape or explosive shells. Dunno.

On swords, quite a number of cavalry units didn't carry them and fought as dismounted infantry instead. Custer's Wolverines were mixed in that some regiments were saber regiments and others had Spencers. Dunno.


(Message edited by Gary on November 23, 2003)

[spudee]

G'day All,

Thanks for the great info on weapons of the war. I had a look at a site with a photo of the LeMar. Now that must have been a real devil, especially up close and personal, with the in-built `shottie'. No wonder Old Jeb Stuart carried two! When you look at many of these firearms, they seem to have been used at a crucial time in the development of military weapons.

Thnaks guys.

[scone]

Wonderfull post Guys.

My answer although not Weapons themselves the "Minie Ball" and the "Rifled barrel" or the combination of both changed the way wars were fought from then on.

[unionblue]

Guys,

In my opinion, its the PBI who do all the work and what worked best during the Civil War was the 1861 Springfield rifle, .58 cal. That was the weapon that caused the most battlefield deaths.

Unionblue

[gary]

Now, if we're talking tactical changes because of the widespread use of the rifle-musket...

Some pre-war theorists believed that short range combat was a thing of the past and that engagements would begin at about 800-900 yards. Other theorists believed that only a select few (sharpshooters) would engage that far and that the main line of battle would be much closer. The latter was correct and Paddy Griffith discusses it thoroughly in Battle Tactics of the Civil War. A newer book would be Bloody Crucible of Courage.

One thing happened was that soldiers learned it wasn't unmanly to seek cover and two, to entrench themselves as quickly as possible. Neither were in Hardee or Casey but soldiers were a bit more practical than relying on Napoleonic tactics.

Ok this is a silly post I'm sure but I just watched 12 Monkeys. The film by Terry Gilliam and starring Bruce Willis, Brad Pitt and Madeleine Stowe. If you haven’t seen it I will just post what Amazon said about it

“Equal parts mystery, tragedy, psychological thriller, and apocalyptic drama, 12 Monkeys ranks as one of the best science fiction films of the '90s, boosted by Gilliam's visual ingenuity and one of the finest performances of Willis's career. “
I would add that both Pitt and Stowe’s performances were phenomenal. Pitt got an Oscar nod. I am not a fan of either Willis nor Pitt particularly but in this film I am impressed.

ANYWAY........

In it, Bruce Willis has a handgun given to him at the end of the film. I watched it frame by frame in various parts of the film and I am 100% sure what he is using is a Cavalry Model LeMat Revolver. I watched it over and over until I really was sure that is what it is. I’d freeze it on the gun then look at the pics on the provided link.

Why do I think that only a civil war buff or gun nut would have noticed?

Or maybe I'm just wyrd.



http://johno.myiglou.com/lemat.htm


I know...pointless post but .....I just had to tell somebody.

YMOS
tommy

[oldsoul3]

Hello all,

Great posting everyone! I learned a lot! I envy you folks that have had the chance to actually fire these weapons! What a way to get a feel for history!
In the regimental history of my Ggrandfathers unit (the 87th Pa) it notes that they began with the Harpers Ferry, which was considered too heavy and cumbersome at about 15 pounds, then they went through the Austrian rifle which they said seemed like a toy compaired to the Harpers Ferry. They then had Enfields for a while and ended with the Springfield. All I know is that I want to get an origional Springfield to represent my Union ancestors and an origional Enfield to represent my Confederate ancestors! LOL Think my wife will like that one!!! Anyone have 3-4 grand to loan me!!! Oh, and I quess I have to get a Confederate Cav Saber to represent the 7th Va Cav ancestor's!!!! LOL (I think I may have to get an 1840 US Cav saber and pretend!!!!!since I would have to sell my car to get CS!!!) I actually don't know what the 2nd Va infantry carried or the 7th Va Cav? Any Ideas?
I have to say that I think different guns were best for different purposes. As for artillery I would have to go with the 12 lb Napolean for best all around. (Lee thought so). I love the two Whitworth Cannon sitting up by the Peace Light memorial at Gettysburg. They are beautifully restored now too! They were great for long range, but I don't know if they were good for much more than smashing buildings, cassions, other stationary objects? As Mr Priest said on a recient "Unsolved History" program about Pickets Charge, A near miss with artillery was almost as good as a direct hit in its ability to frighten and turn troops around.
Speaking of Unsolved History, did anyone see the program about the sharpshooters shot that almost hit Lincoln at Ft Stevens in DC? They had a marksman recreate the shot of 800 yds to see if it could have been aimed or was just a lucky shot. He used either a Kerr or Whitworth sharpshooters rifle (sorry I can't remember what it was). First they showed that Lincoln could have been seen from that distance with a spotter, then the marksman made a few shots on one day with some wind and missfiring probems and he couldn't make it. But, on the second day he hit the target on first shot from nearly 1000 yrs! It was very interesting to see!
Oh, I read Cold Mt and the character Inman carried a LaMat which he liked very much. I haven't seen the movie so, I don't know if they have him carrying one in that. Anyone see?
APhillbilly-I love that! stopping tape frame-by-frame and checking with the pictures on the web site! Yup, thats what I do! I like that!!!! We are not crazy-the rest of the world is!!!!!

Lew