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Civil War History - Gettysburg Forum Gettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!

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  #1  
Old 09-06-2004, 12:43 PM
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The more I read about General Buford, the more I am impressed by his character and his life and accomplishments as a professional soldier. Without Buford's defence at Gettysburg, it's unlikely that the battle would have turned out the way that it did.

I think I finally have a good understanding of passive/active defense strategies, but it appears that General Buford's strategy at Gettysburg was "defense in depth" and I'm wondering if this is actually the same thing as an "active defense", or something completely different?

When I consider that Buford's effective strength at Gettysburg was reduced by 25% since one in every four men held calvary horses, I am in awe of the sheer brilliance of General Buford, and the tenacity and bravery that was so characteristic of his Boys.

Dawna

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  #2  
Old 09-06-2004, 01:44 PM
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Dawna:

Hmm you were just reprimanding Sherman for being a hard hearted, war mongering psychotic...just how many people did John Buford summarily execute during the Gettysburg Campaign,6, 8?

Buford was a highly effective cavalryman. He was also a prima donna. He fueded with the less capable Pleasonton, and sneered at scoffed the appointment of the new boy generals, Custer, Farnsworth and Merritt. (Supposedly after hanging two spies in Frederick he responded to protests of the lack of due process by saying something to the effect that if he turned them over to the proper authorities they would probably be freed and appointed generals of Union Cavalry.)

Bufords bluff and stand on 30 June and 1 July is terribly overblown and his reputation has been carried to new heights by the Gettysburg movie. This is not to say that he didn't do a superior job in his role as cavalryman: he occupied ground and collected incredibly accurate intel - which was ignored by Pleasonton and Reynolds.

Bufords "defense" on the morning of 1 July succeeding in slowing the approach of Heth just enough to allow an otherwise leisurly approach by John Reynolds just enough time to arrive and do the real fighting. This slowing was not the effect of hard fighting, but merely the presence of a proper line of outposts and supports which forced Heth to form a heavy skirmish line in front of his column, and slow the columns pace to conform to that of the tactical skirmish line. Confederate observers dismiss the notion that any fighting of any intensity occurred with the cavalry prior to 10am, and the reported losses support that case.

Defense in depth bespeaks arrangments made to ensure that all layers of defensive preparation are interlocked and mutually supporting so that if part of the defense is lost the attacker can be effectively engaged by the other parts.

Active Defense means that the defensive plan is not merely passive, but has the ways and means to aggresively attack the enemy whenever the advantage presents itself. For example during the 1862 operations around Richmond, although McClellan's was the force strategically assaulting Richmond and it's defenders, Lee didn't simply sit behind his works but lashed out in the Seven Days Battle, taking the iniative and momentum away from McClellan and driving him off.
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  #3  
Old 09-06-2004, 02:51 PM
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David:

I appreciate your clear explanations regarding my questions on in depth/active defense strategies as I often find it difficult to visualize the structure of a battlefield, and I don't find the small maps in books particularly helpful. I have a long way to go in understanding the science applied behind the major battles of the Civil War.

It appears we both agree that John Buford was a highly skilled and effective cavalryman (I would add brilliant) and that he paved the way for all that transpired at Gettysburg. For the most part, General Buford, like Longstreet, was a true professional, but I'm sure that like any soldier of that time, he wasn't without shortcomings. But Buford didn't suffer from emotional difficulties that forced him to leave the army for a time, and recuperate at home. Nor did General Buford receive his appointments because of who he knew.

David, my original queries regarding Sherman were from the gathering evidence that many people (professionals and otherwise) thought that this man was insane. I wasn't merely reprimanding Sherman...I was accusing him of full blown war crimes and still no one has addressed the Roswell issue, but this thread is about Buford and Roswell can be continued elsewhere. Just to note, I was also accusing Sherman of cowardice.

I think that you may have mentioned elsewhere that you held the same opinion of Colonel Chamberlain (another prima donna?) who I truly believe deserved every laurel bestowed upon him in the subsequent years following Gettysburg.

Dawna
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  #4  
Old 09-06-2004, 06:36 PM
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Mr Kelly, splendid definition of the defense in depth & active defence. You may wish to take another look at your comment about leisere approach of Reynolds... How far did the Iron Brigade & Cutlers Brigade Double Quick again? Buford was a splendid Cav commander, a bit overrated perhaps... Custer has been deified and if you want to talk about overrated there is a wonderful place to start.

I think you slight the actions of the Cav on the first day, a lot of credit I believe, belongs to the prescence of Sharp's & Smith Carbines and tough veterans holding their ground against a lackluster Heth.

Dawna, the Roswell Incident has been covered quite in depth elsewhere... though to be honest I don't have a clue where that thread might be. Roswell happened... but I firmly believe that is an incedent where a shred of truth has been blown all out of proportion.

Sherman a coward... that is a new one to me, anyone who has read of his actions at Shiloh might question such an assertion.
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Old 09-06-2004, 06:54 PM
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I think I'm suffering from Michael Shaara withdrawal.

Shaara's Killer Angels has influenced an entire generations perception about the civil war and Gettysburg. Not a bad thing; but art isn't necessarily history. The prima donna tag was part cynicism, part military dry boned humor.

Buford was a hard as nails old plains officer with an over abundance of testosterone. Believe he held up a hanging announcing he needed to reload his pipe first so he could really enjoy the show. His mewling about needing to leave Gettysburg to refit his badly depleted force strikes a sour tone with my own military memories about a certain type of I'm right everybody else is wrong sort of general officer class that gets humored because they are useful killers.

Chamberlain on his own merits is a likeable sort. He served honorably and did his duty. His memoirs, like John Gordon's suffer a tad from over inflation. Chamberlain's war record indicates that the good doctor of bowdoin had a weak constitution and the devils own luck with getting shot. He had a few moments like Gettysburg; punctuated with sunstroke, influenza, typhoid, and three serious wounds: he spent a lot more time in a hospital bed than in the field.

And as for Sherman: glad he has another fan

DKelly
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  #6  
Old 09-06-2004, 07:27 PM
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>Mr Kelly, splendid definition of the defense in depth & active defence. You may wish to take another look at your comment about leisere approach of Reynolds... How far did the Iron Brigade & Cutlers Brigade Double Quick again? Buford was a splendid Cav commander, a bit overrated perhaps... Custer has been deified and if you want to talk about overrated there is a wonderful place to start.

I think you slight the actions of the Cav on the first day, a lot of credit I believe, belongs to the prescence of Sharp's &amp; Smith Carbines and tough veterans holding their ground against a lackluster Heth. <

Correct me if I'm wrong but I believe the head of column was around the Sherfy farm when they heard the first artillery reports. According to OO Howards memoirs Reynolds told him on the morning of 1 July not to press the march, as there'd be no battle that day, and it was hot.

Not slighting the cavalry. Buford conducted atextbook screen that bought several hours by delay; not by decisive combat. Before the issue of whether or not McPherson Ridge would have to be contested transpired Wadsworths Division arrived and took up the defense against the Archer/Davis attack. David G Martin's oft maligned Gettysburg the first day, has what I consider to be one of the best single sourced explanations of this opening phase that I have read.

Probably the one shining combat moment on Day 1 for the cavalry was Gambles ambush of Lanes Brigade off Fairfield Road during the final attack on the Seminary. The close intense fire broke their advance.(Lanes that is)

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Old 09-06-2004, 07:57 PM
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Mr Kelly, I recently finished a splendid book that followed both the Iron Brigade and the Stonewall Brigade through the War... It and at least two other references (though I admit I can't lay hands on any of the books at the moment as I'm away from my library and reference list) mentions both the Iron Brigade and Cutlers Brigade double quicking well over a mile to reach the fight on the first day. While this may not reflect the actions or orders of Reynolds... their movement certainly wasn't leisurely.

Doesn't Howards memoirs (I may have my memoirs confuesed) mention Reynolds not believing there would be a general engagement at Gettysburg until he reached the point of the fighting and saw the Confederates he revised his opinion but was killed shortly after.

Incidently, I believe Reynolds was a rare general that knew his own limitations and was quite competent.
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  #8  
Old 01-06-2005, 09:25 PM
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I just read the series of exchanges prior with some interest particularly your varied opinions of old Bill T. Sherman. I'm probably the only southern boy around here who has much use for him. On the other hand, I'm one of the few who I suspect has read his memoirs and what he claims he was thinking. I rather believe he was a professional soldier with a bit of heart. I may be hung at my next SCV meeting?
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  #9  
Old 01-06-2005, 09:59 PM
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Well Larry I hope you don't get hung at your meeting! I think I am the only one on this thread who is not a Sherman fan but there are many others who are. I haven't read Sherman's memoirs but it's on my list as I really would like to know 'what he was thinking.'

Dawna
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  #10  
Old 01-06-2005, 10:34 PM
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Larry,
I have read his memoirs. Twice actually. As well as all his missives I could find in the online OR. As well as his ideas on how to suppress the Native Americans. I disagree on almost all fronts about his being the wonders and cucumbers in US soldiery presented on the boards. As to a heart, indeed he had one but I seriously suspect it was all black.

As to being hanged, if you defend Sherman at a SCV meeting you may well need some neck salve. Descretion would be my advice lol.

Dawna,
How much credit would you give Buford’s superior weaponry at Gettysburg? The breech loading Sharps was a serious advantage on its own but add the Spencer repeating rifle and it gives almost an unsurpassable advantage. Facing a defensive force armed with a weapon that could shoot 7 rapid fire shots without having to reload would be a heptathlon of the highest order. I know which side of that fence I’d rather be on.

YMOS
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