Civil War History - Gettysburg ForumGettysburg! It's not just a National Park. It's a Civil War Battlefield. For some it's historic and storied past are almost an obsession! All related discussions are welcome here!
Are you saying you havent come across the idea that Lee was targeting Harrisburg? or How Jackson would have put him there?
Lee had Ewell heading for Harrisburg and the Susquehanna and Longstreet following. Early was heading for the river at Wrightville, Looking to secure a crossing there, but he failed. I feel that had Jackson still been alive, Lee would have had better control over his troops, thats all.
I have an order to prove it if you want me to share that...
Dawna, I think if Lee didnt feel like he had the advantage he would not have carried the war north. But he had the initiative and he was going to use it.
Ahh I see, I didn't recall of the top of my head that Lee's target was Harrisburg, as I haven't read anything on the Eastern theater for some time (except G. M. Sorrel's memoir's which is more about his experiences than matters of military history). But I do believe if Jackson would have kept his men in tight marching order all the way to harrisburg even if they were shoeless, foodless or on fire LOL (quite the opposite to McLaws), but in this discussion i was enjoying the idea of Lee with Jackson and Longstreet on the same ground/situation the AVoN on July 1st 1863
My understanding of Day 1 of Gettysburg is that Lee ordered an attack on Cemetery Hill but it was ignored and an opportunity was lost...was this order ignored by Longstreet? On Day 2 Lee ordered Longstreet to attack the Federal left while Ewell was to drive on Cemetery & Culps Hills. I know that Longstreet opposed Lee's plan and his orders were delayed, but by late afternoon Longstreet's entire line went into action against The Wheatfield, The Peach Orchard, and along Emmitsburg Road. At the end of the day, the Confederates held Devil's Den, The Peach Orchard and the lower slopes of the Round Tops and the Federal line remained in tact and unflanked. I realize that neither army made any appreciable gain on the second day of battle, but wouldn't Longstreet's efforts still have been considered a success?
Who should have backed up Early when he charged Cemetery Hill at dusk?
On July 3rd, the artillery duel began at 1:00 p.m. and lasted about 2 hours and then the Federals slackened off, leaving the Confederates to believe that this was because the Union line had been weakened. Longstreet then ordered Pickett to move forward with his three brigades. If Lee gave Longstreet his orders at 11:00 a.m. and Longstreet had his artillery positioned by 1:00 pm. and his troops ready to move as soon as the artillery stopped around 3:00 p.m., how then could Longstreet be accused of wasting valuable time?
I've been reading a great deal lately about Longstreet and unfortunately most of it has been critical. So much is said about Longstreet's slowness to move and his open theatrics when in direct opposition with Lee, but this doesn't sound like the behaviour of a tried and true "War Horse." To me, Longstreet was the eptitome of a professional soldier and very scientic in his approach to battle...much like Buford. I think both were amazing men.
Of all the criticism that I have come across thus far, the least one that I can accept is that Longstreet was "too opinionated." I would hope that the second-in-command of an army as powerful as the Army of Northern Virginia might have had an "opinion" or two.
Dawna, Longstreet is not to be blamed for not taking the hill on the 1st, he was still far from the field. Lee had told Ewell to "take the hill if practicable," but it was dark, and Johnson's men were scared of by a handful (literally like 5 men). Johnson's division was advancing up culp's Hill on the night of the first, and his advanced scouts were fired on by a picket post and the scouts returned and told Johnson the hill was heavily defended. In reality, it was only lightly defended. Ewell saw it as to dangerous to press the attack.
On the 2nd, Lee's goal was to flank the Union army, but also to gain the Peach orchard for the use of his artillery. He was under the impression that it would provide a elevated position from where he could throw down a murderous Flank fire on the Union. The only problem is that the union flank was not actually exposed from the Peach Orchard (that is, once Meade secured his line after the fighting on the 2nd)
On the third, Longstreet is, well I do, blame him for not having Pickett's men up on the field in the early morning as Lee wished. Thus Lee had to resort to PIckett's charge. Note: Pettigrew and Trimble advanced with Pickett, followed by (once picketts reached the angle) Wilcox and Lang I believe. So it wasnt just Garnett, Kemper and Armistead.
The artillery bombardment was only suppose to last 10 -15 minutes..not 2 hours. Thus the ammo was depleted, and Union over shots and cause Pendelton to move the reserve artillery train farrher to the rear, along with a battery of howizters (short range guns) that were suppose to take part in closely supporting the advance. As it was, only a handful of guns actually advanced with about 15 rounds with which to support the advance.
Longstreet is not blamed for delaying the charge. He should be blamed, however, for leaving it unsupported and allowing it to be crushed.
Its not that Longstreet was opinionated. Lee clearly Knew his stance on the attacks at Gettysburg, but for longstreet to keep on pressing them and allowing them to affect his mood and then judgement...thats poor.
Thanks Ben. It's clear that I'm still confused regarding the third day but I'm getting there! I had believed that General Lee didn't give his orders to Longstreet until 11:00 a.m. and not early morning...this would indeed put Longstreet's actions on Day 3 in a different light.
Dawna, Remeber this. Lee gave orders to Longstreet early in the morning to have Pickett on the field. He planned to resume the attack on the right with the addition of PIcketts division. Those are orders he did give. He didnt give any orders in regards to PIcketts charge until later.
What books are you reading about the battle? I would suggest Pfanz's Gettysburg: The second day, and Noah Andre Tredeau's Gettysburg: A Testing of Courage.
For those of you who have been to Gettysburg, I would really enjoy hearing about your experiences (and recommendations), if it's appropriate to do so in this forum. I'm planning a trip next year, but there is a possibility as early as this fall. Thanks.
I made a mistake in my previous post regarding a few books that I'm reading. It's "Glory Road" by Bruce Catton and "The Hallowed Ground" by the same author. I just started "The Generals, Ulysses S. Grant and Robert E. Lee" by Dwight Anderson & Nancy Scott Anderson. None of these authors are fans of Longstreet.
Dawna, Living in northern Maryland, I have great access to Battlefields. I'm about an hour from Sharpsburg and Gettysburg, and hour and a half from Spotys and Fredericksburg (Chancellorsville and Wilderness inculded), and about three hours from Richmond.
I have always thought the best way to do a large battlefield like Gettysburg is to take a bike up there and ride around. There are certain things you can't see if you are in your car, and walking the whole battlefield would zap your strength very quickly.
If you are not a person who feels like you know the battle that well, I would buy the tour tap or tour cd. I would also take one of your books on the battle for reference purposes.
Now at Gettysburg, you have a number of places to go in town. You have the visitors center with a great book shop and a ton of exhibits. I would suggest the virtual map. Its one of those map with lights and shows the basics of the battle...but you have to pay (buy your tickets at the front desk). I think it runs every 15 minutes or so.
One thing that I have always wanted to do was start at the Virginia Monument and walk from Seminary Ridge to Cemetery ridge...I dont know if you are actually allowed to do this however.
On Little Round Top, make sure you check out the 20th maine monument...its around the back of the Hill where they fought. Its somewhat of the beaten path.
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