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(If such a company never existed...where did the name come from? You have to Think!...or do I have to do it all?)
Every year I go to a parade in a local town, run by the Chamber or Commerce. The "Garibaldi Guard" marches in it most years, a local re-enactor group. They "exist". They are not part of the US armed forces, nor subject to their command.
In this case in Mobile, Creoles in the town offered to form a regiment to serve the Confederacy on April 23, 1862. They were rejected by the Confederacy on May 5th. Seven months later (despite being desperate for troops to defend Mobile, it still took seven months for the Alabama legislature to allow this) the state legislature permitted them to form a militia unit to serve within the county -- as long as a "discreet white man" was in command. In official terms, this is when the unit begins. They could have been drilling for years -- or meeting in the town square for bowling -- and calling themselves whatever they want; they don't exist as a military unit until this point in time.
But just FYI: historical speculation is that the "Creole Guard" of Mobile was largely based on one of the pre-war fire companies in the town. In that day and age, a fire company was usually a private organization, not part of a governmental organization in any way.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Yes, into Confederate service- "They are very anxious to enter the Confederate service."
And, as you know, the Confederate service refused them time after time.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
Being 'accepted' into Confederate service is not necessary to be under local military command.
It is for the Confederate command. They deny your desire; not me.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Here is a relevant section on Mobile and the Creole Guards;, but I'd suggest reading the entire thing at the link.
The Ms. Flanagan being quoted below is Sheila Flanagan, assistant director of the Museum of Mobile. The Bob Bradley mentioned was the chief curator at the Alabama department of Archives and History in 1998.
The "Corps d’Afrique" mentioned is the Louisiana Native Guard unit mentioned so often in discussions of "Black Confederates".
====
Not in Mobile
No unit of free men of color comparable to the Corps d’Afrique existed in Mobile, Ms. Flanagan said.
"There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile," Ms. Flanagan said. "It was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side."
Local historians acknowledge that little is known about the Creole fire department believed to be that non-white Confederate unit. What they do know is that it was a paramilitary unit that wanted to volunteer for the Confederate Army as did those white fire departments, said George Ewert, director of the Museum of Mobile.
"Because of their race they were not allowed to enlist as regular soldiers," Ewert said. "They acted as part of the home guard."
During the early days of the Civil War in Mobile, slaves were ordered to build the earthworks used to protect Mobile. In 1862, the Alabama Legislature gave free blacks permission to enlist for the defense of Mobile. But they did not form actual armed regiments.
While some neo-Confederates believe that men of color were welcomed into the Confederate ranks with the same privileges as white soldiers, historical accounts indicate that these fighting men were not comparable to those who served with the 54th Massachusetts, immortalized in the feature film "Glory."
The historical accounts of free blacks or slaves serving on the Confederate side depict them doing pretty much what they did as slaves: Running behind their masters. They were attached to white officers, acting more as bodyguards or personal servants or both, Bradley said.
"Even privates would take servants out on the battlefield with them," he said. "They found out pretty quick that it wasn’t such a good idea."
Historical accounts don’t show blacks leading charges, fighting hand-to-hand combat or even shooting at the enemy.
Free blacks and slaves worked in non-military ways: They mostly took care of horses and equipment, cooked meals, hauled supplies, washed clothes and carried the wounded and dead from the battlefields. They graded roads, constructed railroads, drove supply wagons, and labored in iron foundries and munitions industries.
Slaves built defensive installations, especially in Mobile. Mostly their labor was involuntary.
The Confederate government in Richmond, Va., had discussed raising black troops in 1865. Id did give John Tyler Morgan permission to organize black troops for the Confederacy, but by then the war was nearing an end.
Researchers at the Alabama Department of Archives and History ran across a transcription of a letter regarding an actual regiment of free blacks established by a man in the Prattville area in early 1861, before the war started, said Bob Bradley, the chief curator. But researchers do not know what happened to that particular unit – whether it remained with the Confederacy or switched to the Union side.
The state archives has evidence of blacks who attended Confederate veterans’ reunions, some even wearing uniforms. It is believed that those slaves who went to the battlefield were possibly "treated better" in a plantation household and felt that they could best serve their own interests by remaining with the master.
But the story of John Smith indicates that the slaves indeed had their minds of their own. Smith, a slave from Selma, went off to war with his master, who was killed near Blue Mountain. Smith then joined the Union troops and was with Gen. James H. Wilson when he captured Selma.
=====
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
DID SOUTHERN BLACKS FIGHT FOR THE SOUTH? New debate focuses on definition of 'black' [sure 'nuff]
By Rhoda A. Pickett
Mobile Register,August 23, 1998 No unit of free men of color comparable to the Corps d’Afrique existed in Mobile, Ms. Flanagan said.
"There was no black Confederate unit in Mobile," Ms. Flanagan said. "It was a Creole unit. It would be a long, long stretch to say that it was a black unit. There was no counterpart to the black divisions that fought on the Union side."
Well, that's it...the Creoles of Mobile were not black...and it follows that the Native Guard of New Orleans (Creoles) were not black either...except for the few hundred that would later join the USCT and then...and only then...did they become 'black'...
Got it.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Well, that's it...the Creoles of Mobile were not black...and it follows that the Native Guard of New Orleans (Creoles) were not black either...except for the few hundred that would later join the USCT and then...and only then...did they become 'black'...
Got it.
You should really stop laughing at yourself this way.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
You should really stop laughing at yourself this way.
Tim
Well, i guess that's it [...fire btn...] the party is over [...barnard..] it's time to get along [...moreland...] the day is done...
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Well, i guess that's it [...fire btn...] the party is over [...barnard..] it's time to get along [...moreland...] the day is done...
Did you have something to say here, or did the static from the tinfoil garble your message?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
"...and shall be under the command of the military authorities in the city of Mobile."
-Act approved by Alabama Legislature, 20 November 1862
True...sort of. There was an organization of "Creole Guards" that existed prior to that date...but I don't know what their official status was.
It was still in effect in late '62 and into '63 (from sources) and based on the fact that Mobile was under constant blockade and Federal armies in proximity I don't believe it was ever lifted.
Battalion,
Trice has given me the answers by his informative posts.
You have not.
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
This thread is not exactly heading toward crossing the river and resting under the trees.
Is there a point to be sought in here? Are Creoles black Confederates or not? And why should I care?
ole
__________________ I never knew a man who wished to be himself a slave. Consider if you know any good thing that no man desires for himself. A. Lincoln
This thread is not exactly heading toward crossing the river and resting under the trees.
Is there a point to be sought in here? Are Creoles black Confederates or not? And why should I care?
The only real point about the "Creole Guard" in Mobile is that they are one of the very few examples that can be found of a "Black Confederate" unit in the Civil War. As you can see, the Confederate high command did not want them. Even the Alabama legislature dragged its feet about accepting them into the Home Guard when they were desperately short of troops to defend Mobile.
As to whether or not they were "black", it is a matter of debate. They themselves probably would have denied it in public, and for good reason. Being considered "black" or "negro" was a bad thing in the South. That was equated with people who had few or no rights, with slaves and freedmen who were not citizens. These men wanted to be in a class above that. That's where the name "creole" comes in.
As a result of the Louisiana Purchase with the French and other treaties with the Spanish that acquired territory in the South, there was a class of non-white people in the Deep South and particularly along the Gulf Coast that was forever free (i.e., could not be enslaved) by US law (and therefore by state law). These were largely people of mixed race. There was another large group of freed slaves and their descendants -- also largely people of mixed race -- living in the area. These were also often considered "creoles". Many were related to wealthy planters on the wrong side of the blanket.
In Louisiana, Creole was many things. There was Creole French, the local dialect. There were White Creoles and Black Creoles (gens de couleur libres and slaves) Here's a wiki link for a general background: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Louisiana_Creole_people
As a result, the use of the word "Creole" might mean anything. P. G. T. Beauregard, Confederate General, was a Creole. The "Creole Guard" company of Baton Rouge is not regarded as a "Black Confederate" unit (I know of at least one member who was Jewish).
It is obvious from the difficulties with the "Creole Guard" of Mobile that they contained people who were considered non-white. The Alabama Legislature is only willing to accept them with a "discreet white officer" in command -- and there would undoubtedly have been members of the legislature from Mobile who knew exactly the sort of men they were talking about in the "Creole Guard". It seems at its' core to have been based on a fire company of Creoles (I heard once there were five fire companies in Mobile, and the other four all formed militia/home guard type units). That's not surprising; the "Fire Zouaves" of New York City were also based on fire companies who volunteered.
Many of the "Creoles" being talked about in New Orleans as the Louisiana Native Guard and in Mobile as the "Creole Guard" were fairly successful people. They had some wealth accumulated (Hollandsworth says they totalled about $2 million net worth in New Orleans). He says they had financial incentives to serve to protect that wealth and to secure their position in the new regime (i.e., if the South won, better to have served and gained a foothold than to have sat the war out.)
But as you can see, the Confederate War Department did not want them, and repeatedly refused the offer of their services. In LA -- no matter what Governor Moore might have done in an emergency -- the state legislature twice passed laws specifying "white males only" for the Militia (once in January of 1862; once in January of 1863). The Governor's action in recalling the LA Native Guard in March 1862 after they were dissolved by the law of January was perhaps understandable in the emergency, but at least technically a violation of the law. Battalion's argument that the Confederacy must have accepted them because the militia was put under Confederate command is a shell game based on denial.
Much the same in Mobile. The AL legislature did accept them in a limited fashion. The local Confederate commander, desperate for troops, tried to get them accepted. The Confederate War Department , acting at the highest level, specifically denied him permission. The best the Secretary of War would do is to allow the general to use individuals if they could pass as non-Negro (i.e., white). This was the Confederate equivalent of "Don't Ask, Don't Tell". My guess would be that a wink was as good as a nod to Maury in Mobile.
In the end, the only importance to it is that 'something" related to "Black Confederates" did happen in Mobile and it is good to know exactly what it was when discussing the matter so that we can see it in perspective. In the overall scheme of the war, it is a flyspeck on the windscreen.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Trice has given me the answers by his informative posts.
You have not.
Unionblue
I gave you some clues...try research.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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