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"RICHMOND, VA., March 23, 1862.
Maj. Gen. SAMUEL JONES, Mobile:
The President desires that you proclaim martial law in his name over Mobile and the surrounding country.
J. P. BENJAMIN, Secretary of War."
Question. Do you know if the unit in question, the Creole Guard, was also armed and permitted to be part of the units called up or placed in Confederate command as part of the martial law decree?
Tim,
Thank you for the website and review you provided.
Am I to take it then by the source you gave in the article that primarily the militia of Mobile was primarily recruited from the white population?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Last edited by unionblue : 04-21-2008 at 04:23 AM.
Question. Do you know if the unit in question, the Creole Guard, was also armed and permitted to be part of the units called up or placed in Confederate command as part of the martial law decree?
Tim,
Thank you for the website and review you provided.
Am I to take it then by the source you gave in the article that primarily the militia of Mobile was primarily recruited from the white population?
Sincerely,
Unionblue
In March of 1862 all of the Militia of Alabama, by law, consisted of white males only. (That's not to say there weren't a few men mixed in who might be creoles, particularly those defined as forever free under the treaties with the French and Spanish, particularly if they could "pass" as whites.)
One of the many things to note here is that martial law is being declared in many places at about this time in the Confederacy. Hindman declared it out west of the Mississippi to much outrage and was dismissed for it. It was declared in New Orleans, in Mobile, and in four cities of Virginia (Richmond, Norfolk, and a couple of others). I think it had been declared in Nashville before it fell, and probably in Memphis. In general, the period from February to May was very bad for the Confederacy, which is why we see these extreme measures during the emergency.
Grant had taken Forts Henry & Donelson, leading to the fall of Nashville and opening up the Cumberland and Tennessee Rivers to Union penetration. Pope was advancing down the Mississippi. Buell was moving overland through TN while Grant came downriver to Shiloh. Faragut was threatening New Orleans. The possibility loomed that 1862 would see the end of the Confederacy. McClellan is moving to the Peninsula and threatening Richmond.
It is also during this period that the Confederacy notices they are running short on troops while new enlistements are far too few and re-enlistments (despite bonuses and furloughs and all the other gimmicks) are falling way too short of what was needed. During the debate in the Confederate Congress, one Representative stood up and pointed out that the Confederate Army had 148 12-month regiments with terms expiring by May. If any significant number of them dissolved and went home, the war would be over. With McClellan at Richmond's door and the casualty lists from Shiloh arriving, conscription was quickly adopted.
In Mobile, all this led to certain specific events. Braxton Bragg took his troops off to the concentration at Corinth, stripping Mobile's defenses. The newly elected Governor Shorter called out the Militia in the counties down there to man the defenses -- and was shocked at how few men showed up. He issued a call again (I guess he didn't believe the results of the first one) and was brought face-to-face with a hard truth: most of the military-age white men in those counties were already serving in the Army.
This is what creates the need for martial law in Mobile: in early 1862 they have already hit the bottom of the manpower barrel, and the withdrawal of Bragg's troops has created a crisis. Confederate weakness, not any specific Yankee threat, is responsible for the declaration here. That was not the case in Virginia nor in New Orleans.
As a result, one of the needs for martial law down in the Mobile area was to enforce the conscription upon those who did not wish to go. This included foreigners -- including people from US states like Massachusetts. Seems real strange to be so desperate you are forcing "foreigners" to fight for a cause they do not believe in -- and arresting them if they refuse to take a loyalty oath.
This is why Davis grants permission for martial law down there: the need for troops and the desperate situation with most Confederate troops transferred elsewhere. It is also worth noting that on the night General Sam Jones receives that order from Davis, he also receives an order from Bragg to hand over his command and hurry to join Bragg up near Corinth. Jones issued the martial law proclamation the next day and left. General Butler of the Alabama Militia was now in command in Mobile.
It was many months after this that the Alabama legislature passed the act authorizing the enrollment of the Creoles of Mobile (November 20, 1862). At the time of the declaration of martial law, that organization did not exist. I do not know, however, how long the martial law remained in effect, or if it was ever lifted by the Confederate authorities.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Question. Do you know if the unit in question, the Creole Guard, was also armed and permitted to be part of the units called up or placed in Confederate command as part of the martial law decree?...
Sincerely,
Unionblue
From post #1-
"...and shall be under the command of the military authorities in the city of Mobile."
-Act approved by Alabama Legislature, 20 November 1862
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
It was many months after this that the Alabama legislature passed the act authorizing the enrollment of the Creoles of Mobile (November 20, 1862). At the time of the declaration of martial law, that organization did not exist.
True...sort of. There was an organization of "Creole Guards" that existed prior to that date...but I don't know what their official status was.
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
I do not know, however, how long the martial law remained in effect, or if it was ever lifted by the Confederate authorities.
It was still in effect in late '62 and into '63 (from sources) and based on the fact that Mobile was under constant blockade and Federal armies in proximity I don't believe it was ever lifted.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Originally Posted by trice It was many months after this that the Alabama legislature passed the act authorizing the enrollment of the Creoles of Mobile (November 20, 1862). At the time of the declaration of martial law, that organization did not exist.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
True...sort of. There was an organization of "Creole Guards" that existed prior to that date...but I don't know what their official status was.
Yes, you do. The November 1862 act of the Alabama legislature is what allows them to become part of the state Militia. Before that, state law stretching back to 1820 (and Mississippi Territory law before that dating to 1807) restricted the Militia to white males (not even just free ones, since indentured white males are allowed). The 1861 Alabama reorganization of the Militia does not change this.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
The November 1862 act of the Alabama legislature is what allows them to become part of the state Militia. Before that, state law stretching back to 1820 (and Mississippi Territory law before that dating to 1807) restricted the Militia to white males (not even just free ones, since indentured white males are allowed). The 1861 Alabama reorganization of the Militia does not change this.
Tim
Well you have shown us by this law that the Creoles were placed under Confederate command (your post #1). What else do you have?
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Well you have shown us by this law that the Creoles were placed under Confederate command (your post #1). What else do you have?
No, that is just you trying to claim something not proven. What the act shows is that the Alabama state legislature allowed the unit to be formed at the discretion of the mayor of the city of Mobile. Nowhere has there ever been presented here the slightest evidence that the Confederate authorities accepted them. I have asked you about this; you didn't answer. Please do so now, or stop making these claims.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
No, that is just you trying to claim something not proven. What the act shows is that the Alabama state legislature allowed the unit to be formed at the discretion of the mayor of the city of Mobile. Nowhere has there ever been presented here the slightest evidence that the Confederate authorities accepted them. I have asked you about this; you didn't answer. Please do so now, or stop making these claims.
Tim
A military company operating in a city under martial law usually...or should we say always requires approval of the local military commander.
Your post #2 (letter of Maury) indicates they were operating as a military company- "company of creoles of Mobile"
Please read your own posts.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
New York Times, 27 September 1861
Last edited by Battalion : 04-21-2008 at 10:44 PM.
A military company operating in a city under martial law usually...or should we say always requires approval of the local military commander.
Your post #2 (letter of Maury) indicates they were operating as a military company- "company of creoles of Mobile"
Please read your own posts.
But can you show specifically if this unit was part or accepted as part of the local militia? Do you have any sources or documentation that refers specifically to this particualr unit?
Or are you just stating your opinion that it must be so?
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
Originally Posted by trice No, that is just you trying to claim something not proven. What the act shows is that the Alabama state legislature allowed the unit to be formed at the discretion of the mayor of the city of Mobile. Nowhere has there ever been presented here the slightest evidence that the Confederate authorities accepted them. I have asked you about this; you didn't answer. Please do so now, or stop making these claims.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Battalion
A military company operating in a city under martial law usually...or should we say always requires approval of the local military commander.
Your post #2 (letter of Maury) indicates they were operating as a military company- "company of creoles of Mobile"
Please read your own posts.
Battalion, as always, you try to distort what was said and mislead people into believing what you want them to believe. In this case, you are deliberately misrepresenting the exchange of letters between General Maury and the Confederate War Department.
In his letter, Maury once again, IS REQUESTING PERMISSION to accept the company of creoles. The Secretary of War DENIES him that permisssion in his response. This is strong evidence that the Confederate command never did accept this company
This is absolutely true. It has been shown to you before, and I posted it to you again to start this thread (see #2 and #3) so that you would be unable to make believe you had not seen it. Please stop all this deliberate deception and simply accept what the government of the Confederacy said. In order to avoid confusion in the future, please respond by clearly admitting your understanding of this Confederate policy.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
But can you show specifically if this unit was part or accepted as part of the local militia? Do you have any sources or documentation that refers specifically to this particualr unit?
Or are you just stating your opinion that it must be so?
Unionblue
Look up 'Creole Guards' (see title of thread)...
(If such a company never existed...where did the name come from? You have to Think!...or do I have to do it all?)
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
In his letter, Maury once again, IS REQUESTING PERMISSION to accept the company of creoles.
Yes, into Confederate service- "They are very anxious to enter the Confederate service."
Quote:
Originally Posted by trice
The Secretary of War DENIES him that permisssion in his response. This is strong evidence that the Confederate command [Maury] never did accept this company
Being 'accepted' into Confederate service is not necessary to be under local military command.
See Articles of War #62.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
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