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Battalion, this thread has not been on topic since you opened it.
The title of this thread is:
The USCT(United States Colored Troops)...How many were Volunteers?
I, for one, am still waiting for you to provide the answer to that question.
Now, if you don't have the answer, what was the purpose of this thread?
Maybe it would have made more sense if you had instead entitled your thread:
The USCT(United States Colored Troops)...How many were Drafted? [I added that on first post]
From what I have seen, you have provided evidence that some of the USCT was made up of draftees.
Maybe you should have been a bit more clear on what you were actually trying to say.
IMHO,
Unionblue
PS How many of the USCT WERE Volunteers?
I don' know.
If volunteers were actually 'volunteers' with somebody else pocketing the bounty money we may never know.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
Unionblue asked: How many of the USCT WERE volunteers?
Battalion answered: I don't know.
Thank you for your answer.
Sincerely,
Unionblue
__________________ "The American people and the Government at Washington may refuse to recognize it for a time but the inexorable logic of events will force it upon them in the end; that the war now being waged in this land is a war for and against slavery." Frederick Douglass
"Loyalty to our ancestors does not include loyalty to their mistakes." George Santayana
The military of both USA and CSA was raised primarily from the white population. If you add the 3.6 million blacks to the 5.5 mil this will weaken your argument even more...or are you claiming there were 100,000 black Confederate soldiers?
No, Battalion, that is simply false.
The reason the South was able to use so much of their white male population to fight the war was that they deliberately restricted their black male population to non-soldier roles. They used them as laborers. They used them to raise crops and handle many tasks that would otherwise have required "white males" to be assigned to them. It was a choice Southerners made, one that was essential to their way of life and beliefs, perhaps, but a choice nonetheless.
In the North, there were men working at the same sort of tasks (farming, factory workers, etc.) You are counting the Northerners; to be fair you need to include those Black Southerners. But fair rarely concerns you when you wish to twist things to favor a view of the South, does it? Or do you think the South would have been able to maintain all those white men in the Army if there were no slaves back home on the farms and plantations?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
The ratio between the two will be constant.
Number reduced to male population- CSA
Army
750,000 / 3,000,000* = 25%
or
1,000,000 / 3,000,000* = 33.3%
*2,750,000 (11 states) + 250,000 from border states. USA
Army
2,750,000 / 10,750,000 = 25.6%
*
16.7%...~...33.3%...~...66.7%......etc
12.8%...~...25.6%...~...51.2%......etc
Just more deliberate distortion and lying with statistics here. This is your usual approach. It is like reading the sort of blurbs that appear in ads for movies.
You give a male population of 2,750,000 for the 11 seceding states. The actual 1860 Census White Male population of those areas was 2,799,818. This leaves out half-breeds, Indians and colored people (both slave and free). This leaves out 1,828,809 colored males in those 11 states. You know they were there, yet you leave them out. This is just deliberate distortion by you to make the Confederate percentage seem higher.
Without the labor of those colored males, the South could not have put such a high percentage of its white male population into the military. Yet you would like to pretend those Black people were not there helping the war effort along for this calculation. Balderdash. If you want to compare percentages of men who served as soldiers for the Union and Confederate sides, you have to include everyone or you are simply being misleading.
BTW, the entire Colored Male population of the "free" states and territories in the 1860 Census was 109,907. That is all of them from newborns to old codgers, not just the military age ones. Yet it appears some 179,000 Colored Males served in the USCT during the war, plus some smaller but still large number in the US Navy. This appears to substantiate the belief that large numbers of escaped/freed slaves from the Confederacy or the Border States served against their former masters.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Back to the real purpose of the thread
(before it was thrown off by Trice...-who was not corrected by the moderator...-which moderator has lately been a stickler for staying on thread topic..except for this one)-...
Another untruth from you.
Anyone who looks will see that I asked you repeatedly about the topic of the thread. But if you have somehow blanked it from your mind, remember how many times I asked you for a clear response as you weaved and dodged, like this one:
===== For the fourth time: Once again: there were roughly 186,000 officers and men in the USCT. Some 179,000 of them are considered to have been Black people. Roughly 6% of all soldiers who served in the US Army in the Civil War were draftees (as opposed to the roughly 100% of the Confederates who were subject to the Conscription law applied to them). Now how many of the USCT do *you* claim were draftees?
Don't avoid this. Don't post some vague quote. Give us a clear and unequivocal statement of what *YOU* mean, in your own words.
=====
And your eventual answer was: you really had no clue what the number might be, not even a guess. Willing to make a claim now?
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
BTW, the entire Colored Male population of the "free" states and territories in the 1860 Census was 109,907. That is all of them from newborns to old codgers, not just the military age ones. Yet it appears some 179,000 Colored Males served in the USCT during the war, plus some smaller but still large number in the US Navy. This appears to substantiate the belief that large numbers of escaped/freed slaves from the Confederacy or the Border States served against their former masters.
Tim
Out of those 178,000 black soldiers 34,000 were free Northern blacks, or 15% of the free black population of 1860, and the rest (144,000) were Southern freedmen, Forged In Battle,The Civil War Alliance Of Black Soldiers And White Officers by Joseph Glatthaar page 71.
__________________
"Those who forget to remember the past are condemned to repeat it", George Santayana.
You give a male population of 2,750,000 for the 11 seceding states. The actual 1860 Census White Male population of those areas was 2,799,818.
I was just using estimates from memory...but I was that close?
I should get a star *
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
I was just using estimates from memory...but I was that close?
I should get a star *
No, you should just be exposed. If you count just whites and blacks, the male population of the 11 seceding states was over 4.6 million in 1860 -- yet you said the "male population" was 2.75 million. Not very close at all. But then you need the total number of males to be low so you can say the percentage of Southerners serving in the Army was high -- so you resort to playing loose with statistics.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
Last edited by ole : 03-29-2008 at 09:47 PM.
Reason: ole's fingerprints all over. A little restraint, please.
Out of those 178,000 black soldiers 34,000 were free Northern blacks, or 15% of the free black population of 1860, and the rest (144,000) were Southern freedmen, Forged In Battle,The Civil War Alliance Of Black Soldiers And White Officers by Joseph Glatthaar page 71.
Roughly another 19,000 served in the US Navy, which accepted blacks earlier than the Army did. Rather impressive proof of the large number of ex-slaves who decided to fight against the Confederacy.
Tim
__________________ "Let us, then, consider all attempts to weaken this Union, by maintaining that each state is separately and individually independent, as a species of political heresy, which can never benefit us, but may bring on us the most serious distresses."
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney of South Carolina, 1740-1824, Revolutionary War soldier, one of the authors of the US Constitution in 1787, speaking at the South Carolina Ratifying Convention in 1788.
No, you should just be exposed. If you count just whites and blacks, the male population of the 11 seceding states was over 4.6 million in 1860 -- yet you said the "male population" was 2.75 million. Not very close at all. But then you need the total number of males to be low so you can say the percentage of Southerners serving in the Army was high [well, isn't that what you were claiming?...]
Tim
Quote:
Originally Posted by ole
Last edited by ole : Today at 09:47 PM. Reason: ole's fingerprints all over. A little restraint, please.
Take note that your post was edited for personal attack.
__________________ POWER & MONEY
"Your New-York bankers and merchants are shrewd people, but I never gave them credit for so much sagacity as when they took the Government Loan. It was not merely patriotism, it was a high stroke of policy. It has saved the Government, and what they will regard as equally important, saved them from a great financial disaster."
New York Times, 27 September 1861
Last edited by Battalion : 03-29-2008 at 10:22 PM.
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