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  #11  
Old 03-18-2008, 05:14 PM
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Originally Posted by ole View Post
Thought of another failing. Well, not really another, but another look at the same one.

McClellan had his own war aims, and they weren't Lincoln's. A little background on Lincoln: Before Sumter, General Scott wrote to Lincoln advising him to abandon both Sumter and Pickens as, in so doing, he would be better able to hold onto the border states. Until that letter, Lincoln relied heavily on Scott's military advice. But the letter meddled in political areas; Scott's star began falling at that point.

McClellan's own war aims were also meddling in political areas. His idea was to not smash Lee's army, but to pressure the Confederacy to return to a negotiating table. It wasn't McClellan's arrogance and self-aggrandizement that got him on the outs with Lincoln, it was his politically motivated goals.

ole
One thing we need to understand about the Lincoln-McClellan-Stanton relationship was how they knew one another before the war.

McClellan was a cheese in the RR industry after he left the Army. Specifically, he had been vice president of the Illinois Central RR before becoming division manager for the Ohio & Mississippi RR. Lincoln had done legal work for the Illinois Central, and apparently thought of Lincoln as an underling.

Stanton had been involved in a patent case with Lincoln before the war, about 1855 down in Cincinatti against the McCormick company. Stanton seems to have decided Lincoln was a rube from the West, and Lincoln felt he was treated poorly by Stanton. No love lost there, resentment still evident on Lincoln's part in 1861.

McClellan was introduced to Stanton in November of 1861 by Samuel L. M. Barlow, one of the richest lawyers in America and the man who got McClellan his first RR job as he left the Army. Barlow was a big-time power-broker, and Stanton was a noted Democratic lawyer; the two of them were thinking of opening a law partnership in New York in 1861. Ostensibly the meeting was about advice on the Trent case, but Stanton and McClellan were on very good terms up until January 29 of 1862. What happened? Stanton became Secretary of War on January 20, 1862.

For the three happy months, evidence suggests Stanton was the spearpoint of a Democratic effort to recruit McClellan to run for election for them. He was pleasant and flattering. Then he became McClellan's boss, became hard-nosed and pressed for action. Things went rapidly downhill after that.

Tim
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2008, 05:31 PM
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Dear ole,

"Head for the bomb-proof?"

The list is a great bunch of people -- Haven't had to wear bullet proof underwear 'yet.' [Laughs good naturedly]

Thanks for the 'heads up' though ole.

Warm regards,
M. E. Wolf
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  #13  
Old 03-18-2008, 08:08 PM
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McClellan had two outs against him, the Peninsula Campaign and Antietam. Lincoln was not playing a baseball game and pulled Little Mac before he knocked the AoP out of the inning. Of course, Burnside almost did at Fredericksburg. McClellan could have saved his job if he had attacked the AoNV as it retreated back to Virginia. Grant smelling a good chance for victory would have pounced on Lee and company. McClellan was a good practice player/coach but could not make the adjustments during the game to win. You cannot keep almost half of your army on the bench and expect to win the game. Allowing Lee time to recover was McClellan's final out.
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  #14  
Old 03-19-2008, 04:20 PM
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Default George Be. McClellan

What made McClellan so dangerous, as opposed to the many other incompetent generals in the Union Armies, was his disloyalty to Lincoln and his Administration.
His hubris was so complete that he was convinced he knew better than his Commander-In-Chief and felt it his duty to actively work against the policies and objectives of his political superiors.
McClellan was not so much a military menace (although he certainly was) as he was a political menace to the entire war effort of the north. .
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  #15  
Old 03-19-2008, 05:45 PM
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Dear OpnDownfall,

I do agree with your opinions and observation.

I would like to add to your post though.

General McClellan probably felt he did know more about "US Army" and tactics. After all, he was sent over to Europe by the 'then' Secretary of War in the 1850's to study European war tactics, like Phil Kearney before him in 1839, to which he studied in France-- McClellan however, went all over Europe, to which he adapted and modified the Hungarian Army saddle into what would be known as the "McClellan" saddle.

I do understand that as a professional soldier and or officer, you get some civilian in as President as 'Commander-in-Chief' and has no official military training--it is hard to shove a cynical mind into an open mind, that maybe a civilian President, like Abraham Lincoln wasn't all that 'stupid.'

I do believe what got Lincoln's undergarments in a bunch was McClellan wasn't sharing 'all' the military data coming in--hiding anything is not a good practice. Makes even me wonder what else might be hidden and my trust levels deminished. I think this was the case. McClellan wasn't respectful either from what I understand--not good with a President.

But, as with all things -- just because one has learned tactics, strategy and the 'arts of war'--doesn't mean that that person can execute what has/had been learned.

With McClellan's nose out of joint for being dismissed in a less than positive public display --to beat Lincoln would give him public kudos and shame Lincoln. Personally, as you wrote --it was more of a personal thing than a political one. I think McClellan would have withered under the political non-sense and behind the door antics. Not much different from what we have to deal with today.

Never know what would have happened if McClellan had won. One of those 'what ifs.'

Respectfully submitted for consideration,
M. E. Wolf
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  #16  
Old 03-19-2008, 06:32 PM
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If I may add to your observations, Mr. Wolf:

What McClellan failed to realize was that wars are as much about politics as about strategy and tactics. Being that he thought he was always the smartest person in the room, McClellan could not appreciate that while Lincoln may not be that savvy militarily, he could run rings around McClellan (and just about anyone else) politically. Many of the "military" judgments made by Lincoln were actually political ones, such as having to keep and employ certain generals even though they stunk or his obsession with the defense of Washington.

Of course, Abe showed George a thing or two about politics in '64....
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Last edited by timewalker : 03-19-2008 at 06:35 PM.
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  #17  
Old 03-19-2008, 11:50 PM
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So we are agreed that Lil' Mac failed the personality test? I appreciate self-confidence -- even arrogance if it's justified. But to stuff that up the nose of your boss is a bit outre, don't y'all think? Injudicious, at least. Incredibly stupid in the middle. Words fail me at the top end.

ole
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  #18  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:37 AM
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Default Outnumbered?

Actually I think if McClellan actually knew what was in front of him, he would've won the war.....he just constantly thinks he's outnumbered, problem is: people are telling him he's outnumbered....I still can't quite fathom McClellan's decision to back away from Richmond during the Peninsular Campaign; to me it would be akin to Eisenhower evacuating France due to the Battle of the Bulge....
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  #19  
Old 03-20-2008, 01:13 AM
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Mac believed he was hopelessly outnumbered because that's what he wanted to believe. It was an excuse to wait. To prepare and to wait some more. He simply lacked the aggressive nature required of a commander. He just couldn't, and didn't buy into Lincoln's understanding of what the war was about: cry uncle.

ole
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  #20  
Old 03-20-2008, 12:08 PM
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[quote=Nytram01;83211]
Quote:
When I first began looking into the American Civil War I fell under the impression the General George B. McClellan was one of the most useless generals of the war but over time I have changed my mind somewhat as I know he wasn't useless.
Nytram01, McClellan falls into the similar status as P.G.T. Beauregard for his career achievements before the war and after the war is impressive while his achievements during the war are less then stellar.

Which means, they were not warriors but thinkers and paper pushers for they could not wield a sword as well as they wielded a pen.

Mcclellan had some personality issues but what successful man is not arrogant. What I have found many times the more successful one is the more arrogant one is.

Success and arrogance tend to bind with each other.
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