Influence of Native American Warfare on Cavalry Tactics

[J_Man0507]

A point was raised in another thread about how Native Americans had a marked influence on the cavalry tactics of the American Civil War, and this got my mind a stirrin'.

Many of the men who were in the cavalry at the time had at one time or another seen action on the western plains, fighthing against tribes such as the Comanche and the Apache. One has to think that this had to have had an influence on the tactics that these commanders used during the war. Did their knowledge of how the Native Americans fought give them an edge over an opponent who had never fought against the Indians? What about men such as N.B. Forrest and John Mosby, men who had no formal military training, yet were masters of the cavalry raid; where did they learn their tactics?

I admit I am not a big student of the cavalry during the conflict, but for those of you who are knowledgable about either Union, Confederate, partisan rangers or all of the above, sound off. I will hazard a guess that the experiences of the cavalry commanders who fought on the plains in the Antebellum years atleast gained a certain amount of knowledge and ideas about how to conduct lightning fast, surprise cavalry raids from their Native foes. Anyone with any more detailed knowlege, please don't hesitate to fill the rest of us cavalry novices in!

[johan_steele]

Cav against Native Americans such as the Commanche, Kiowa or Lakota would have been good combat experiance vs conventional light cav... the Apache were a wholly different kind of opponent and very few had actually fought the Apache. Neither side had Cav commanders that really exhibited tactics of the same kind as any of the plains tribes. If any you might look at the way Wilder used has infantry as similar to the way the Apache used horses but even that doesn't really work as an example as I don't believe he had any experiance w/ the Apache.

Keep in mind both Fetterman and Custer had plenty of experiance... and both got clobbered good by the Plains Tribes.

If anything I would suggest taking a hard look at how the Texas Rangers operated then look at how some of the US Cav from the west operated and compare that to the eaterners and see if you can note any differences

[ole]

When you're talking horsemen, you're talking plains. The Apach could run about as far and as fast on two legs as a Comanche on four. I don't expect anyone brought back any cavalry hints from tours on the plains. Therefore, I don't think there was much of anything gained by the cavalry.

ole

[larry_cockerham]

Forrest learned his tactics by trial and much error. He was a quick learner, but a reckless one. As has been pointed out, the Native Americans of the plains were in a different league.

[Hanny]

Originally Posted by J_Man0507

A point was raised in another thread about how Native Americans had a marked influence on the cavalry tactics of the American Civil War, and this got my mind a stirrin'.

Many of the men who were in the cavalry at the time had at one time or another seen action on the western plains, fighthing against tribes such as the Comanche and the Apache. One has to think that this had to have had an influence on the tactics that these commanders used during the war. Did their knowledge of how the Native Americans fought give them an edge over an opponent who had never fought against the Indians? What about men such as N.B. Forrest and John Mosby, men who had no formal military training, yet were masters of the cavalry raid; where did they learn their tactics?

I admit I am not a big student of the cavalry during the conflict, but for those of you who are knowledgable about either Union, Confederate, partisan rangers or all of the above, sound off. I will hazard a guess that the experiences of the cavalry commanders who fought on the plains in the Antebellum years atleast gained a certain amount of knowledge and ideas about how to conduct lightning fast, surprise cavalry raids from their Native foes. Anyone with any more detailed knowlege, please don't hesitate to fill the rest of us cavalry novices in!

Probably very little, the whole concept of Indian warfare was not to kill in quntatity, which was why feuds between tribes lasted generations. One cav camander said of his time fighting Indians, that he learnt everything about how to command 30 dragons, and forgot everything else he had ever learnt, not quite the sort of thing thats required in the WBTS.

nice read for you tho.
http://www.history.army.mil/books/AMH-V1/ch14.htm

On the same vein, Rommel and Guderian came to the USA and studdied N B Forrst and wove his operational precepts into German blitkrieg.

[M E Wolf]

Dear List Members,

The fact that the Delaware, Creek, Seminole, Kickapoo, Seneca, Osage, Shawnee, Choctaw and Chickasaw Tribes formed for the Union side; the 1st and 2nd Indian Home Guard as to fight within their territories wearing the Union uniform--they were mounted and trained as to be 'in uniform' per se to the Cavalry protocols, tactics and the like. Not all tribes had their men on horses--some acted as scouts, river pilots and the like. The National Archives has a picture of Native American Indians at Fredericksburg as 'sharp shooters.'

On the Confederate side though, the Cherokee Nation created the 2nd Cherokee Mounted Rifles lead by Col. John Drew, one of the riches Cherokee Indians. And, though the 2nd Cherokee Mounted Rifles defected to the Union, while in Kansas and then joined in with the Indian Home Guard--Cavalry was 'there.' This defection from what I understand, happened around March 7-8, 1862.

Col. Stand Watie (Cherokee) though, remained in the Confederacy leading the 1st and 2nd Cherokee Cavalry in addition to battalions made up of Creek, Osage and Seminole--as well as Cherokee. Col. Waite, from what I gather, was a successful field commander in the Trans-Mississippi and West. One success was at Pleasant Bluff in Arkansas (6/10/1864) and at the 2nd Battle of Cabin Creek (Indian Territory) where his cavalry brigade captured supply wagons, mules and prisoners. Waite was made a Brig. General in 1864. Along with his successes, he is alleged to have had a great reputation for guerilla warfare with Cavalry. It is also said, that he was the last to surrender. Lee surrendered, then one month after, General E. Kirby Smith's surrender --only then did Brig. General Watie surrendered.

General JEB Stuart, Mosby's Rangers both--used guerilla tactics in raiding parties. John S. Mosby reported directly to General Stuart.

Though Brig. General Waite was the highest ranking Indian for the Confederates; it cannot be forgotten the Union had Brvt. Brig. General Ely S. Parker, a Seneca Indian and in General Grant's staff. Parker, trained as an attorney transcribed the official copies of the Confederate surrender documents at Appomattox.

Just some thoughts.

Sincerely,
M.E. Wolf

[ole]

The native Americans east of the Mississippi were not horsemen and couldn't be considered to have influence on cavalry tactics, but you'd better believe they had an influence on the woodsmanship of the white's who took over their territories.

I have no knowledge of Regular Cav bringing back what they'd learned about Indian horsemanship. Perhaps someone else has?

ole

[larry_cockerham]

Custer's report was probably illegible, but I suspect he learned a lot, quickly. Seems to me that Civil War era cavalrymen where all relatively young, hence not much chance for service in the west. That came after the Civil War with folks such as Edward Hatch who remained in the army becoming commander of the Western District and leader of the Buffalo Soldiers. Anyone know much about Stande Waite? I doubt he taught much to other Confederates? Interesting subject. Obviously I'm in over my head, once again.

[Borderruffian]

The Cherokee, Chickasaw, Choctaws and Creek that made up Waites command had very little influence on the war outside of the IT.

They were raised with express purpose of attempting to secure the IT for the CS. The treaty engineered by Albert Pike and Ben McCulloch contained that the provison that the Native troops were not to be deployed out of their Nations without their consent.

The Native Trops that fought at Pea Ridge were prepaid to do so. And any other excursion outside their Nations were eithier prepaid or on their own hook.

You've also got to remember that the Native Troops in the IT at the time were also mainly woodland people not plains tribes.

[Freddy]

Originally Posted by larry_cockerham

Custer's report was probably illegible, but I suspect he learned a lot, quickly. Seems to me that Civil War era cavalrymen where all relatively young, hence not much chance for service in the west. That came after the Civil War with folks such as Edward Hatch who remained in the army becoming commander of the Western District and leader of the Buffalo Soldiers. Anyone know much about Stande Waite? I doubt he taught much to other Confederates? Interesting subject. Obviously I'm in over my head, once again.

Custer's Gettysburg report is here.
http://www.civilwarhome.com/custer.htm